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Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

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Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#201

Post by free2rhyme214 »

chrisyeh wrote: post #125

For the record, I'm one of the co-authors of "The Alliance," which Dan Lyons refers to in his op ed. Dan refers to our book and quotes a single sentence fragment: "Your company is not your family." Everything else he writes in that section of the piece has nothing to do with the content of the book. 1) "You’re serving a “tour of duty” that might last a year or two" Actually, the book makes it clear that the duration…

Chris you're right Dan misconstrues your ideas and that's disappointing.

The real issue with his article is that he was lying to himself before he even joined Hubspot. I'm really surprised how shocked people are when they join startups and aren't happy. What did you expect?

Hubspot is not Salesforce. Uber is not Google. DoorDash is not Groupon. The maturity of companies at different stages varies significantly.

I read articles on HN every month about people who are bamboozled about startups after they start working there. These same people delude themselves about how awesome startups are. Startups are the birth of companies.In the beginning and up until you reach a certain point of market dominance, it's always hard. It's been this way for years and yet people continue to write articles about this nonsense every month...I'm really tired of it.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#202

Post by chrisyeh »

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #145
chrisyeh wrote: post #125

For the record, I'm one of the co-authors of "The Alliance," which Dan Lyons refers to in his op ed. Dan refers to our book and quotes a single sentence fragment: "Your company is not your family." Everything else he writes in that section of the piece has nothing to do with the content of the book. 1) "You’re serving a “tour of duty” that might last a year or two" Actually, the book makes it clear that the duration…

managers should be explicit about how an employee's job assignment is going to help develop his or her career That's interesting. I've had a number of managers in my career and never, not even once, has one of them espoused anything resembling such a position. It's always what can the employee do for the company, not what's mutually beneficial.

Sadly, most managers don't talk with their employees about career development. There is an irrational fear that having these conversations gives an employee "permission" to leave, even though an employee certainly doesn't need his or her manager's permission to take another job!

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#203

Post by BinaryIdiot »

capote wrote: post #182

Though I do understand most of the criticism this piece is getting in this thread, can we at least agree that all that bullshit about being a star and "graduating" is total bullshit? What a total slap in the face. Culture aside, crying at your desk aside, spare me the extra layer of fake, pointless language to disguise what is happening. I expect professionalism and respect from an employer, and that involves being s…

> can we at least agree that all that bullshit about being a star and "graduating" is total bullshit? What a total slap in the face.

Completely agree. If the person is leaving on their own? Sure sounds great! But firing or laying someone off? Seems borderline psychopathic to me.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#204

Post by chrisyeh »

nostrademons wrote: post #147
PhantomGremlin wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

managers should be explicit about how an employee's job assignment is going to help develop his or her career That's interesting. I've had a number of managers in my career and never, not even once, has one of them espoused anything resembling such a position. It's always what can the employee do for the company, not what's mutually beneficial.

I felt like most of my managers at Google tried pretty hard at this. We certainly did have conversations about what I wanted long-term within my career and how that might best be accomplished within the organization. Ultimately, I ended up deciding that what I wanted couldn't be achieved inside Google, but they certainly made the effort.

I'm curious...are you still in touch with those managers? Did their efforts convince you to maintain a relationship even after you left?

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#205

Post by chrisyeh »

alsetmusic wrote: post #189
nostrademons wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt like most of my managers at Google tried pretty hard at this. We certainly did have conversations about what I wanted long-term within my career and how that might best be accomplished within the organization. Ultimately, I ended up deciding that what I wanted couldn't be achieved inside Google, but they certainly made the effort.

I spent nearly a decade moving up within another hugely successful tech company and every manager I ever had took time with me once or twice a year to discuss my goals and to outline steps I could take to reach them. Perhaps this is a cultural trait of successful companies (those dominant within their field) that helps them reach such heights.

When companies treat their employees with respect like this, good employees end up staying longer and accomplishing more, which is good for both parties.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#206

Post by haberman »

esbranson wrote: post #167
chrisyeh wrote: post #125

For the record, I'm one of the co-authors of "The Alliance," which Dan Lyons refers to in his op ed. Dan refers to our book and quotes a single sentence fragment: "Your company is not your family." Everything else he writes in that section of the piece has nothing to do with the content of the book. 1) "You’re serving a “tour of duty” that might last a year or two" Actually, the book makes it clear that the duration…

> Dan Lyons certainly has right to his opinions, but he shouldn't have a right to misrepresent our ideas. That's nonsense. A right to opinions that don't "misrepresent others' ideas" is essentially no right at all.

Opinions are not the same as representations of others' ideas.

If I say "I like capitalism," that is my opinion.

If I say "Karl Marx likes capitalism," that is a misrepresentation of someone else's ideas.

If I say "Karl Marx likes oppressive authoritarian regimes" because every country implementing communism has pretty much turned out that way, that's pretty much misrepresenting someone else's ideas too.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#207

Post by neurobuddha »

capote wrote: post #182

Though I do understand most of the criticism this piece is getting in this thread, can we at least agree that all that bullshit about being a star and "graduating" is total bullshit? What a total slap in the face. Culture aside, crying at your desk aside, spare me the extra layer of fake, pointless language to disguise what is happening. I expect professionalism and respect from an employer, and that involves being s…

It reminds me of Newspeak, the language in Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#208

Post by chrisyeh »

anonymous5789 wrote: post #181
nostrademons wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt like most of my managers at Google tried pretty hard at this. We certainly did have conversations about what I wanted long-term within my career and how that might best be accomplished within the organization. Ultimately, I ended up deciding that what I wanted couldn't be achieved inside Google, but they certainly made the effort.

At five years there, I have yet to have that conversation. 1:1s are either what I'm working on or more promises about "this will make a really strong promotion case." Namely motivation for working on whatever shit work needs doing next.

Might be time to find an organization that believes in a mutual relationship, I'm afraid.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#209

Post by capote »

neurobuddha wrote: post #207
capote wrote: post #182

Though I do understand most of the criticism this piece is getting in this thread, can we at least agree that all that bullshit about being a star and "graduating" is total bullshit? What a total slap in the face. Culture aside, crying at your desk aside, spare me the extra layer of fake, pointless language to disguise what is happening. I expect professionalism and respect from an employer, and that involves being s…

It reminds me of Newspeak, the language in Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak

You're doubleplus-unhired!

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#210

Post by eropple »

eclipxe wrote: post #156
luckydata wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in tech for a while and nothing he says sounds implausible or strange. Most jobs in tech are bad, all the perks are there just to confuse young suckers about who's taking advantage of who, and the libertarian streak of tech worker is carefully cultivated to make us weaker as a category. The only glimmer of hope is that personally I'm noticing my peers and friends working all over the Bay Area are starting to…

>Most jobs in tech are bad I'm not sure I can even understand how your arrive at this conclusion? Looking over the entire set of available jobs, tech is clearly one of the best fields to be in. From pay to autonomy to working conditions, etc etc. You want to see a bad job? Coal mining is a bad job.

This is crab-bucket thinking, though. "You don't have it that bad!" Maybe labor, period, kind of has it bad, and that the tug-of-war between labor and capital is in a bad spot right now?

Being a little bit less screwed doesn't make you not screwed, it makes you less screwed.

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