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We only hire the trendiest

danluu.com

201–210 of 728 posts

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#201
Being in the IT job market off and on for the last 18 months and being interviewed at about 40 companies in one of the major tech hubs in the USA, gave me a similar experience as the OP. I came to several conclusions:

1) In my case trendiness is more valuable than the school you've graduated from (graduated from a school overseas that nobody in the USA heard of). I worked for one of the companies in the area, notorious for its difficult tech interviews and I got a bunch of calls from recruiters (including from Google) during my tenure there and immediately after I left. Two years and few short gigs at not-that-cool-companies later, I don't get that amount of calls.

2) Most of the "technical" recruiters have no clue how to evaluate technical candidates. For many of them the main (for some the only) way to judge about your skills is how much money you make/how much money you want. I'm talking about deep understanding what engineer do, I'm talking about basic stuff.

3) If you have 1-2 short gigs for the last couple of years you are under the suspicion that you can not be trusted enough to be hired as a FTE.

4) If you are unemployed at the moment of the interview - look 3) I believe now that hiring in the IT industry is somehow a stochastic process. I was hired and got offers from reputable companies and organizations and rejected even at the first round of interviews by no-name/less-than-mediocre-companies. Go figure.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#202
post #195

Well, I personally would have a lot of caution inviting in someone who is familiar with .Net, out of concern that he would be a Trojan horse. He would be more familiar with proprietary than free software, and hence when confronted with the choice to either bring in what he knows or learn something new, under pressure, it's likely that he would try to bring in something from Microsoft or another proprietary vendor. No…

Would you feel the same way about someone who is currently doing .Net but has experience with other technologies in the past, and still learns and uses non-MS technology outside of their current job?

Like me, for example, I currently have a job doing .Net, but in my past I have several years experience working in iOS, a year working with a Java stack, I used to do PHP way back in the day, I use Python all the time for personal scripts, and I'm currently learning React-Native to update my mobile experience and get a couple new apps out there.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#203
post #127
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I struggle to understand, from a practical standpoint, where it comes from. The performance of ASP.Net is becoming outright ludicrous[1]. I've personally rewritten a lot of C++/CLR to C# and we've seen performance gains over 20% each time. C# is a language that hasn't gone stagnant, regular iterations on the language are made to meet real-world demands. Now that the OS is no longer an issue, why isn't C# seeing more…

The problem is that with .Net experience comes a very big reluctance to "re-use" existing, open-source libraries. I've seen it first-hand, devs that "only" know the .Net stack. You come at them with any solution that involves "free" due to a library/project being open-source, and their brains nearly explode (bit of hyperbole, there).

Really? Everyone I know in the .Net world is busily building upon open source libraries via Nuget, which is an NPM equivalent. Most of that open source code is hosted on Github.

Now .Net is now also open source it would seem that the only proprietary part to the stack is Windows itself, and shortly .Net is going to be running on any platform.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#204

I think we're starting to see the need for 'laborer' programmers. There's a lot of relatively unskilled glue/laborious coding that needs to be done. When you need someone to hammer a bunch of code out for you, you don't need an experienced and flexible software engineer as much as you need a kid with a well-trodden neural pathway that lights up when they write code in your tech stack. I think code schools are effecti…

> I think we're starting to see the need for 'laborer' programmers. There's a lot of relatively unskilled glue/laborious coding that needs to be done.

I have a computer for that! Seriously, that's one of the things a computer excels at. This is what is so nice about a language with strong dynamic typing: it makes writing the sort of code which writes glue code reasonably easy.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#205
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no magic to it at all. Have every candidate work on programming problems related to the work you do at your company. Have every candidate work on the same problems, and let them do it from home. Build and iterate on a rubric for grading those challenges. It is amazing to me that almost nobody does this, but: almost nobody does this. They have programmers write code on a whiteboard, or on some whiteboard-codin…

But this takes far too long.

It saved us enormous amounts of time at Matasano. When we designed our work-sample rubric, our #1 concern was filtering out people who interviewed well and/or had great resumes but weren't worth a billable hour on a real project, but our #2 concern was interviewing faster and getting results back to candidates quickly. (We didn't discover the best reason to do work-samples --- discovering hidden talent --- until after we'd started doing them).

With standardized interviews and challenges, our whole hiring pipeline became entirely mechanical. We could send our a challenge and its instructions in 2 minutes, and evaluate the response the next day (or week, or whatever) later in less than 5 minutes. 7 minutes, to produce a technical evaluation that crushed a competing battery of tech interviews by several senior staff members that took 4-5 hours to do.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#206
post #110

"Contractors are generally not the strongest technically" Where does this come from? I actually see a contractor as someone who had experienced way more "war stories" than the guy who has been sitting in the same chair for 10/20 years. As a contractor, you are exposed to more technologies, more business sectors, different working cultures.

I'm biased (being a long-term contractor), but I would agree that this statement is exactly wrong. Breadth of experience counts and you can't get that without having 'been around'. On the other hand, if you're hiring a contractor who has had lots of very short contracts, that should raise a warning flag. Quite simply tho, why would any good contractor want to go permie? the attraction for me is simple... I get paid t…

Contractors go back to permanent jobs for lots of reasons. Re-locations, change in family status, social reasons (sure does get lonely working from home), aiming for managerial roles, a more stable income (even though less per hour) being able to focus on programming(without having to hunt for new contracts after each project is finished).

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#207
post #195

Well, I personally would have a lot of caution inviting in someone who is familiar with .Net, out of concern that he would be a Trojan horse. He would be more familiar with proprietary than free software, and hence when confronted with the choice to either bring in what he knows or learn something new, under pressure, it's likely that he would try to bring in something from Microsoft or another proprietary vendor. No…

Would you feel the same way about someone who is currently doing .Net but has experience with other technologies in the past, and still learns and uses non-MS technology outside of their current job? Like me, for example, I currently have a job doing .Net, but in my past I have several years experience working in iOS, a year working with a Java stack, I used to do PHP way back in the day, I use Python all the time fo…

> Would you feel the same way about someone who is currently doing .Net but has experience with other technologies in the past, and still learns and uses non-MS technology outside of their current job?

No, certainly not. But I've reviewed resumes of folks who were clearly just cogs in the Microsoft machine (without any indication that they were doing things with Unix & free software in their free time). I really am concerned about bringing in someone like that.

I like your breadth of experience, particularly your usage of Python. Many of my concerns about .Net are applicable to iOS, and I have other concerns about Java, and still other ones about PHP, but anyone who uses Python is probably a good egg.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#208
post #96

I see wonderful symmetry here. There are TrendyCos (hot startup unicorns), BigCos (established companies like google or amazon or microsoft) and UnknownCos (not in the limelight so there is not much information about them). Likewise there are TrendyDevs (hotshots who produce one heavily github-starred framework after another), BigCoDevs (multiple years of experience at one of the BigCos, probably were responsible for…

There's no magic to it at all. Have every candidate work on programming problems related to the work you do at your company. Have every candidate work on the same problems, and let them do it from home. Build and iterate on a rubric for grading those challenges. It is amazing to me that almost nobody does this, but: almost nobody does this. They have programmers write code on a whiteboard, or on some whiteboard-codin…

>It is amazing to me that almost nobody does this, but: almost nobody does this.

There isn't enough feedback when someone has a bad idea on hiring. People will very quickly tell you if your code sucks though (this is a good thing), which might be the kind of feedback needed to get hiring changed.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#209

I tend to agree with most of this (university, GPA, subject, blah blah blah). Bits of paper that are signals of arbitrary things (family standing, ability to take on debt, country of birth). Anti-Windows bias doesn't really feel like an example of 'pedigree' to me, though. I can't imagine programming on Windows. I can't even imagine using the OS. I moved away from Windows ~a decade ago and haven't looked back - it se…

So far none of the responses have gone on a business tangent, yet usually business guys are the ones who decided on / enforced the MS-only doctrine. I assure you some MBA veep who's never touched a keyboard did not make the decision based on the accurate technical details in some replies.

The first one is hiring. Supposedly everyone knows windows, great hiring pool. I donno if I believe that anymore, but in the old days there was certainly no shortage of MCSE to hire. It doesn't matter if the UI for the OS and office software change completely every couple years because "everyone knows windows" so training costs only exist for alternative OS or alternative office software. When that linux genius quits he's irreplaceable, isn't he? That's a great position to be in if you're that guy (me), but business people hate that. To some extent this is a young person vs old person problem because college campuses (campii?) are owned by apple, not MS. MS is just to run the dorm xbox, that's all. This is strategic planning on the part of decision makers.

The second is financial embrace and extend. Once you got one windows server or a couple desktops, inevitable licensing agreements make the marginal delta of "another windows box" extremely cheap (maybe zero) vs the measurable costs of mac etc. BSA / etc audits will make your life a living hell unless you participate in this scheme. This is bean counting on the part of the decision makers.

The third is interoperability. Unless you're the worlds most boring company you'll be doing something weird and under the first topic above, everything weird has by default windows clients or drivers or applications. There will be a windows client for an eprom programmer or I2C driver. There might be alternatives but it will work under windows. Then see the topics above. You will need windows boxes... you just will. This is pragmatism on the part of the decision makers.

The fourth is CYA. Like decades ago, "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" today "nobody ever got fired for buying MS". You could get fired for buying a mac and it doesn't work, or installing linux on a server that crashes, but no quality of service, including zero, is low enough to get fired for buying microsoft. No matter how badly the system gets powned or how much stuff gets stolen, you can't get fired if you bought MS products. Just doesn't happen. If you can afford it, and you like being employed, the decision seems clear from a risk management perspective. Cowardice on the part of the decision makers.

The fifth is support. Business people think we get support by calling a script reader in India who tells use to wipe, reinstall, and reboot, and furthermore that is worth money and worthy of making procurement decisions. In the real world we know we use google for support and non-MS stuff googles better. But business people like a risk management of a nice security blanket of telephone support from a dude with a nice looking certificate. Its not actually useful of course, but business people don't understand it. Business people think computer support is like medical support and you call 911 and get fixed up, but 911 converted to computer support would be a pretty funny standup comic routine. Essentially this is plain old ignorance on part of the decision makers.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#210

I tend to agree with most of this (university, GPA, subject, blah blah blah). Bits of paper that are signals of arbitrary things (family standing, ability to take on debt, country of birth). Anti-Windows bias doesn't really feel like an example of 'pedigree' to me, though. I can't imagine programming on Windows. I can't even imagine using the OS. I moved away from Windows ~a decade ago and haven't looked back - it se…

.NET runtime and framework with Dev Studio are very very good. If you haven't tried for a long time, you owe it to yourself to take a look.

To me my stereotype - if you're in a corporate world and want developers that like users and spend a lot of time on complicated business problems - you're likely to see lots of "windows developers".

If you want some to write apps with lots of technical complexity and simple business logic, you're better off with "unix developers".

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