Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups • Hacker News Board

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#201

Post by wallawe » Fri, Mar 18, 2016, 2:48 PM UTC

jcuga wrote: post #192

What good is a billion dollar startup if it pays little US tax, and only employs one or two hundred high paying jobs? A 100 Million dollar company typically employs just as many high paying jobs and may pay more US tax than a lot of these tech companies. Also, a lot of these tech companies that are "shaking up" industries are profitable at the expense of other more traditional businesses (For example: AirBnB taking b…

> What good is a billion dollar startup if it pays little US tax?

Your line of thought implies that the only way a company can add value to the economy is through employment and taxes. You only need to look for a couple seconds at the mess in DC to glimpse how much money from taxes is wasted, not to mention allocated towards ethically questionable activities (drones, domestic spying, wars, etc). That's for another conversation.

In the case of airbnb, you are taking money from larger more established corporations (hotel chains) and giving it to homeowners who have a spare bedroom or are away for the weekend. You are also providing a wider range of pricing options for consumers. So the company contributes to the economy in those ways as well, not just through employment and taxes.

> Also, a lot of these tech companies that are "shaking up" industries are profitable at the expense of other more traditional businesses

These companies take business from traditional companies because they provide more value. Keep in mind the whole point of a company to fulfill a need. I would say that it's not really up to you or anyone other than consumers to decide if it's a good thing or not that these companies succeed. Competition is always a good thing for consumers.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#202

Post by chrisper » Fri, Mar 18, 2016, 2:57 PM UTC

ojbyrne wrote: post #103

chrisper wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL, but you cannot legally work on your own startup if you are on H1B

You can be a "co-founder" of a funded startup though. As long as the company has enough financial backing to prove they can pay you a market wage, and you meet the other requirements.

Oh, that makes sense!

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#203

Post by hitekker » Fri, Mar 18, 2016, 3:13 PM UTC

mmargerum wrote: post #168

winter_blue wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, "scab" is a strong word. I was only familiar with the wound-related definition, so I had to look it up. The Google definition is: " a person or thing regarded with dislike and disgust ". So I guess you regard me and the many other immigrants to the US with "dislike and disgust". It is a shame that you hold immigrants in such contempt, but I am confidant that the majority of Americans are not as hateful and "disg…

I think "Scab" in this context refers to non union workers employers would bring in to end a strike or bust up a union.

That is both the context connotation and also the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker wikipedia definition.

The parent comment is seeking out a way to be offended, and perhaps more importantly, to denigrate a person whose opinion the parent disagrees with.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#204

Post by winter_blue » Fri, Mar 18, 2016, 3:36 PM UTC

cubano wrote: post #188

no_wave wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is absolutely no STEM shortage at the Facebook/Google level. Google has been on the record many times that they're happy rejecting good applicants in order to reduce the risk of hiring a bad candidate. That's not what hiring during a shortage looks like.

This is so very true, and not only that, they use their ridiculous exclusionary and arbitrary hiring practices as a self-enforced proof that they absolutely need more low cost H1B workers.

I find it willfully ignorant, hateful, and racist how you keep demeaning immigrant workers by characterizing them as "low cost".

I graduated very recently with a B.S. in Computer Science, and my total comp (incl. bonuses) at my current company is slightly over $150,000. I am not over-worked, or under-paid. (I have never met any of these "cheap workers" myself, but I'm sure they exist in some corners.)

It is disgusting, dishonest and offensive how your portray every H-1B visa holder as a "low cost" worker.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#205

Post by taurath » Fri, Mar 18, 2016, 3:46 PM UTC

zhemao wrote: post #130

taurath wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The better option is to make sure that everyone in your country that has the POTENTIAL to be an Elon Musk gets the education and skills they need to become him. Elon went to many prestigious private schools and had early childhood access to expensive computers, which is a common thread in MANY founders and current executives and VCs in the startup world. Meanwhile I know a lot of smart people who don't go to college…

These are not mutually exclusive possibilities. You can accept highly skilled immigrants AND improve your education system. If anything, doing the former might make it easier to do the latter, since those highly skilled immigrants will provide more tax revenue to spend on public education.

True enough, but companies only argue for more immigration (quicker fix) than an educated populace (not their problem/criticism of govt is bad for business)

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#206

Post by winter_blue » Fri, Mar 18, 2016, 3:49 PM UTC

dalke wrote: post #182

winter_blue wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there are two groups of companies. Companies that can't find the talent that they need in this country, and companies trying to save money. There definitely is a STEM shortage, and you are being really dishonest if you say there isn't. Ask any hiring manager at a tech company. Facebook, Microsoft, Google, and many, many other companies do not underpay or maltreat their visa-holding employees in any way. It is p…

No, there is not a STEM shortage because "STEM" is a nonsense term. The companies you mentioned don't want to hire anthropologists, general relativity theorists, large animal biologists, nuclear power engineers, differential geometry experts, meteorologists, pharmaceutical chemists, or most of the other diverse fields in STEM. No, the shortage is only in from a much smaller subset of primarily programming related ski…

The idea that good programmers are as easily trainable as good welders is ridiculous. If that were the case, we wouldn't have a shortage.

My company actually does try to train people. We hire people who come out of coding camps like General Assembly -- and we actually pay these camps when we hire them. Students attend these camps for free.

After that, we pair program with them, and painstakingly explain various concepts to them. We hold them by the hand, and literally teach them. I found it amazing that my company had to do this, and shocking that they literally could not find good developers. My company is just looking for developers that can get shit done. We are not looking for rock stars, or master algorithm puzzle solvers. Just people who can build decent, functioning non-broken software.

FYI, I graduated very recently with a B.S. in Computer Science, and my total comp (incl. bonuses) is slightly over $150,000. And, at my company, the typical workday is from 10 am to 6 pm. I am not over-worked, or under-paid.

It is clear that you've neither been in a position of hiring developers, nor have an idea of what good programming skill is.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#207

Post by puppetmaster3 » Fri, Mar 18, 2016, 4:03 PM UTC

dalke wrote: post #117

In a slightly older thread concerning this topic, at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11306290 I made some objections to this analysis. I think there's a fundamental problem in how to interpret this analysis. It says that a company is founded by an immigrant if there is at least one immigrant founder. This means that if 1 of 10 founders is foreign born, then it classified as immigrant founded. An aggregate calcul…

I also think a qualifier like: 'legal' immigrants would give the story more credibility.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#208

Post by winter_blue » Fri, Mar 18, 2016, 4:03 PM UTC

ones_and_zeros wrote: post #184

winter_blue wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there are two groups of companies. Companies that can't find the talent that they need in this country, and companies trying to save money. There definitely is a STEM shortage, and you are being really dishonest if you say there isn't. Ask any hiring manager at a tech company. Facebook, Microsoft, Google, and many, many other companies do not underpay or maltreat their visa-holding employees in any way. It is p…

There is not a STEM shortage according to many academics who study the issue and scientific research. What you are claiming is a shortage is a lot like me claiming there is a shortage of Mercedes vehicles because I can't afford the ones on the market. Supply will meet demand and I wish employers were encouraged to train already well educated people that are in this country already than lobby for the expansion of immi…

There is also no anthropogenic climate change according to the scientists that many GOP congressmen love to cite.

There are an overwhelming number of organizations, companies, universities, and other institutions that have talked about the benefits of a less restrictive immigration system. You willfully chose to ignore all of them, and pick the ones that fit your false, preconceived, prejudiced beliefs.

Do you realize that what people like you are advocating is exclusion and severe restriction of immigration? It's very nativist, xenophobic, extremely right-wing and anti-progressive. Most of your ancestors would not have made it into the United States under the current system.

I've commented in more detail about this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11312557

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#209

Post by beambot » Fri, Mar 18, 2016, 4:05 PM UTC

dalke wrote: post #160

beambot wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right idea (being jaded) but wrong reason. It's more likely a political jab at the various GOP candidates' opinions about H1Bs.

The author has been writing about immigration policy for some time. From the bio at the end of the report, this includes 'four and a half years on Capitol Hill on the Senate Immigration Subcommittee' and a 2010 book titled 'Immigration'. It's therefore very unlikely that this piece concerns the specific views of any of the current candidates but is instead the author's long-term interest. Moreover, the National Found…

Fair enough. I stand corrected.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#210

Post by ones_and_zeros » Fri, Mar 18, 2016, 4:30 PM UTC

winter_blue wrote: post #208

ones_and_zeros wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is not a STEM shortage according to many academics who study the issue and scientific research. What you are claiming is a shortage is a lot like me claiming there is a shortage of Mercedes vehicles because I can't afford the ones on the market. Supply will meet demand and I wish employers were encouraged to train already well educated people that are in this country already than lobby for the expansion of immi…

There is also no anthropogenic climate change according to the scientists that many GOP congressmen love to cite. There are an overwhelming number of organizations, companies, universities, and other institutions that have talked about the benefits of a less restrictive immigration system . You willfully chose to ignore all of them, and pick the ones that fit your false, preconceived, prejudiced beliefs. Do you reali…

Whoa easy with the name calling.

I'd personally love a less restrictive immigration system. But OPT and H1B are very restrictive and benefit employers much more than they benefit society. The government and those that control the immigration system serves the people and I think they sometimes forget that and come up with policies that are very beneficial to employers at the expense of the middle class. I think this is part of a major systemic issue that is leading to the squeeze on the middle class.

One of these days I'm going to write that blog titled something like "How to take a position against current immigration policies and not be called a xenophobe".