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MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

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Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#201

Post by CyberDildonics »

bediger4000 wrote: post #190
mietek wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you really know about George W. Bush? http://keithhennessey.com/2013/04/24/smarter/

If Bush is that smart, what does that tell us about his questionable decisions on other things? Why start a war in Iraq based on WMD's that weren't there, and a government that was not in league with Osama bin Laden? Why start dragnet surveillance? Why let the CIA torture people? Why do the ridiculous tax cuts at the same time we're spending big dollar on a war? If Bush is that smart, he must have good motives for th…

This isn't a counterpoint to Bush actually being intelligent, but the most convincing theory I've heard about the war in Iraq is that Sadam Hussein was going to sell oil for Euros instead of Dollars (and he had formally announced those plans). The idea is that speculation about future oil not being bought and sold in dollars would devalue the dollar as countries would hold less in their reserves, and this would start a more rapid cycle of devaluation.

EDIT: Looks like people don't even want to deal with this as a theory.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#202

Post by melted »

nether wrote: post #198
melted wrote: post #159

I think what we need are apprenticeships. I.e. a prominent research group hires kids after the remedial first two years of traditional college curriculum (or something like it plus a couple of years in an entry level job), and has them work on the actual problems at hand, filling the knowledge gaps as needed. It is no longer possible to know much of anything, so we should specialize and diversify at the same time, me…

How is this different from existing internships? Or are you suggesting that they be made graduation requirements?

This would be similar to internships in research labs (for the academically inclined) or startups (for product inclined). This is not at all similar to an internship at a traditional company, where you're given some kind of a bullshit problem that no one else wants to touch. Doing research or building a product (or, preferably, a mix of both) should be central part of the curriculum, not an afterthought which you might or might not pursue.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#203

Post by sliverstorm »

gravypod wrote: post #4

The only point of a modern day university is that they are (a) exclusive, and (b) "guarantee" that students "know" what they are "taught". That's at least what people who hire think. I remember someone saying "It wouldn't matter if MIT only taught basket weaving as long as they still had such a thorough selection process". This holds true here. People only care about the pedigree of your degree, it's substance comes…

Are you familiar with accreditation? ABET is the one that comes to mind. Systems whose whole purpose is ensuring students really do know what they are expected to have learned.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#204

Post by agumonkey »

mietek wrote: post #96
david927 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's surprising that it's taking so long. The wealthiest have always found ways to preserve their wealth and Ivy League institutions have played a role in that. Take some smart people, a lot of people that are good at fitting the mold that looks best, mix your rich kids in there and call the paint one color. Remember, George W. Bush (all politics aside, just looking at him in terms of intellectual prowess) graduated…

What do you really know about George W. Bush? http://keithhennessey.com/2013/04/24/smarter/

How on earth such things don't surface harder ? W Bush was an idiots idiot for decades. His 'speech fumbles' are still very bad in form and "content" to me. I'd never expect to read anything of that sort about the man ever.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#205

Post by dnautics »

mietek wrote: post #96
david927 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's surprising that it's taking so long. The wealthiest have always found ways to preserve their wealth and Ivy League institutions have played a role in that. Take some smart people, a lot of people that are good at fitting the mold that looks best, mix your rich kids in there and call the paint one color. Remember, George W. Bush (all politics aside, just looking at him in terms of intellectual prowess) graduated…

What do you really know about George W. Bush? http://keithhennessey.com/2013/04/24/smarter/

that's really fascinating, I'm not a liberal, but very opposed to the Bush presidency - I'm entitled, to since I voted for him once. And I always believed him to be stupid. And I think these days, I do the "No intelligent person could conclude X, therefore President Bush is unintelligent." because if he's dumb, the policies he executed that I disagree with it just a matter of ignorance, and not evilness. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#206

Post by dnautics »

bediger4000 wrote: post #190
mietek wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you really know about George W. Bush? http://keithhennessey.com/2013/04/24/smarter/

If Bush is that smart, what does that tell us about his questionable decisions on other things? Why start a war in Iraq based on WMD's that weren't there, and a government that was not in league with Osama bin Laden? Why start dragnet surveillance? Why let the CIA torture people? Why do the ridiculous tax cuts at the same time we're spending big dollar on a war? If Bush is that smart, he must have good motives for th…

you should really parse the WMD stuff over again. The history on this is as follows: Post Iran-Iraq war Hussein had a WMD development program, and then the UN inspections regime came and put several of them "under seal". In the runup to the Iraq war, the US repeatedly asked where these sealed WMDs were and Hussein refused to disclose where they were or allow inspectors to see them, and the US spun that as implying that he COULD use them to supply terrorists with WMD (technically true, unlikely to actually happen). Ultimately, after invading the US found them, and they were still "under the UN seal", unable to be used in any military context.

The US also never argued that there was a direct connection with Bin Laden, just that Iraq was covertly supporting terrorism. Which is similarly flimsy, limitedly true, and definitely manipulative of the US public.

So, the Bush administration was incredibly deft at taking minor truths and spinning them in the public's mind as molehills that justified bigger action. Not to justify their actions, but in the strictest sense, Iraq did have WMDs, and Iraq did support terrorists.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#207

Post by crpatino »

nether wrote: post #198
melted wrote: post #159

I think what we need are apprenticeships. I.e. a prominent research group hires kids after the remedial first two years of traditional college curriculum (or something like it plus a couple of years in an entry level job), and has them work on the actual problems at hand, filling the knowledge gaps as needed. It is no longer possible to know much of anything, so we should specialize and diversify at the same time, me…

How is this different from existing internships? Or are you suggesting that they be made graduation requirements?

Yes, part of it should be that the student gets academic credits that count towards graduation. Even establishing minimum and maximum quotas of which credits come from apprenticeships is healthy with moderation.

But a bigger part of it is that the University must provide for oversight so that the actual tasks assigned to the students is relevant to their academic goals, and that the complexity of the tasks increases progresively in order to present the students with renewed challenges according to their growing skillset.

Without this formal oversight, the whole thing could easily degenerate in a shady personal business where the school's officials "rent" their pupil's slave labor to the highest bidder.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#208

Post by cyphar »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #104
dhimes wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"guarantee" that students "know" what they are "taught" That used to be the case, but now corporations require you to pass their own exam before they hire you. Let that sink in a moment. No longer are the universities taken at their word about their product. For some of you it has never been any different, but this change came about more or less when I was teaching at university/college. Some of us saw this as a quit…

> corporations require you to pass their own exam before they hire you If you're talking about software interviews, know that you need to have pedigree even to get an interview. See Twitter or Palantir recruiting.

> > corporations require you to pass their own exam before they hire you

> If you're talking about software interviews, know that you need to have pedigree even to get an interview. See Twitter or Palantir recruiting.

Counterexample: I currently work part-time (alongside my undergraduate studies) at very well-known Linux software company. When being interviewed, there was no mention of any "pedigree". It was simply that I had contributed to the free software project they were looking for engineers for. Simple as that. You'll find that competence is far more important than pedigree. I've always hated the concept of pedigree, it disadvantages people who have skills but are poorer than others. We ought to push for a meritocracy. As a separate matter, higher education should be much cheaper (or just make it free).

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#209

Post by copperx »

jbhatab wrote: post #189
rndmize wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people are passive. They want a teacher to lead them and guide them through the learning process. Bull. Most people have any interest in learning beaten out of them by our crappy factory/prison like educational system. Because you know what's not conducive to learning? Having no choice as far as subjects; having no choice how long you spend on them; having no choice on who to learn from; having no choice who y…

I disagree. I think most people need structure. It may be from personal issues or life issues, but most people need that guidance.

Structure and motivation are needed to learn about subjects you are not passionate about. For those things that make your heart race faster, structure is a hindrance.

However, to have real mastery of a subject (say, Computer Science), will require you to suffer through parts of the curriculum that don't seem interesting.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#210

Post by AnimalMuppet »

dnautics wrote: post #206
bediger4000 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Bush is that smart, what does that tell us about his questionable decisions on other things? Why start a war in Iraq based on WMD's that weren't there, and a government that was not in league with Osama bin Laden? Why start dragnet surveillance? Why let the CIA torture people? Why do the ridiculous tax cuts at the same time we're spending big dollar on a war? If Bush is that smart, he must have good motives for th…

you should really parse the WMD stuff over again. The history on this is as follows: Post Iran-Iraq war Hussein had a WMD development program, and then the UN inspections regime came and put several of them "under seal". In the runup to the Iraq war, the US repeatedly asked where these sealed WMDs were and Hussein refused to disclose where they were or allow inspectors to see them, and the US spun that as implying th…

And why did Hussein refuse to disclose where the WMDs where or allow inspectors to see them? Because he wanted to bluff neighboring countries (primarily Iran, I believe) into thinking that he had them and would use them in a pinch. But that bluff ran into the US's desire to control who had WMDs, with disastrous results.
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