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France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

arstechnica.co.uk

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Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#201

Post by metanoetic »

XorNot wrote: post #150
metanoetic wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, they're still not ISIS terrorists. The state of emergency was used to stop public discourse and dissent - both anarchists and non-anarchists were banned from attending marches during the Paris climate summit.

Terrorists are terrorists regardless of affiliation. ISIS doesn't have organized operations in the west it just takes credit for lone acts. By and large its not clear ISIS actually wants people to commit terror attacks in the west since it gets potentially useful recruits killed not fighting for territory in the middle East (note they are big on how you should definitely move to the ISIS territories).

anarchists =/= terrorists

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#202

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

GrumpyBen wrote: post #141
metanoetic wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, they're still not ISIS terrorists. The state of emergency was used to stop public discourse and dissent - both anarchists and non-anarchists were banned from attending marches during the Paris climate summit.

The police had to protect the COP21 and the visit from more than 150 head of states. They also have to protect administrations, newspaper offices, jewish organizations and others potential terrorist targets. There's just not enough police forces to handle all this, plus marches and anarchist protests

Who's more of a threat to the public - random candle-throwing anarchists, or the heads of state of the biggest and most militarised and industrialised nations in the world?

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#203

Post by alexqgb »

cryoshon wrote: post #135
TallGuyShort wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely more afraid of the people who are afraid right now than I am of the people who they think I should be afraid of. The anti-Muslim rhetoric (e.g. yelling "All Muslims are terrorists" at town meetings) scares the hell out of me. How easily could that attitude be shifted towards any arbitrary group with just one or two tragic events?

On one hand, it's unquestionable that radical Islam is an aggressor that is funding and directing terror attacks. On the other hand, Muslims are people too, and it is extremely unjust to punish all Muslims for the actions of a radical sect. I think that Europe is in danger of lurching rightward and tempting the return of ethno-religious cleansing. Fascism is not pretty, and the danger for Europeans is real.

it's unquestionable that radical Islam is an aggressor

Sure, but why stop there instead of going just a tiny bit deeper and identifying the money layer? You'll find it has a lot less to do with religion and a lot more to do with efforts by the House of Saud to maintain an increasingly dubious hold on worldly power. You'll also find a rat's nest of illiberal interests from nominally liberal countries with an interest in their survival. Thus, the broader desire to deflect attention from the very dark and concentrated heart of this to a much more diffuse and amorphous target like "radical islam".

Every time you're tempted to say "radical Islam" try saying "Saudi Arabia" instead. More often than not, you'll find you've hit on the more accurate term.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#204

Post by gotchange »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #177
JacobiX wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only the Muslims are targeted, if you are an Atheist Arab and it happens that you have an Arabic name you will receive the same treatment.

Which is why many of my wife's family have changed their names, and given their children non-Muslim names. On the flip side, my wife has also had other Muslims judge her for being too secular... BTW, Arab-Christians are a thing, they're not named Mohammed, Ali or Abu Bakr... 'Muslim' names are distinct from 'Arab' names (ie. Are names of Islamic saints).

Do you really think that the bigots, angry mob or lowlifes would be capable of telling a secular Arabic name from an Islamic or Christian one?

Good luck with that! Try convince them first that "Syed" the first name of the Muslim terrorist who carried out the San Bernandino attack is a secular name and not Islamic one then we can talk about your "Final Solution" for the Muslims.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#205

Post by cobaltblue »

Europe is doing all it can to produce a new Hitler. The anti-Muslim rhetoric can be insane at times, but it's no lie that the imports are from a very different culture and are unlikely to assimilate to a more western one, especially when they outbreed their western counterparts.

What concerns me is that all this money and rage will be spent in reaction to these tragic events that kill either less than 100, around 100, or around 3000 people tops. Earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, and disease routinely kill far more and yet suggesting we devote effort to solve the engineering challenges of controlling our planet gets tossed aside as just as crazy as the suggestion that it's possible to control immigration with a wall.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#206

Post by jacquesm »

Kristine1975 wrote: post #171
Mikeb85 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, the ugly truth is that communal punishment is the only form of punishment that truly works. Right now, Muslims won't turn in their neighbors and children to the authorities if they're radicalized. It's only when they're more afraid of the consequences of not turning them in that extremism will finally begin to be purged from their communities. As long as Muslims say "they're not REAL Muslims" and absol…

>Which is unfair, but it's either that or the rise of the 'Sixth Reich' in a generation That sounds a bit like Sam Harris advocating for genocide in his book End of Faith: Sure it would be a crime, but otherwise millions would die.

Murdering millions because millions might die? Forgive me if I can't follow you.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#207

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

nitrogen wrote: post #168
gherkin0 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that argument is pretty weak. Many of the millions that the Soviets sent to the gulags were socialists and communists, but that action doesn't make the Soviets or those they imprisoned and murdered not-communist or not-socialist. Communists and socialists have a long histories of bloody internecine conflicts.

Countries have long histories of bloody conflicts, regardless of ideology.

Why are you getting downvoted for this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history

You'd have to be somewhat detached from the historical record to seriously suggest that all of these, or even a majority, were the result of socialism.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#208

Post by anon4 »

cobaltblue wrote: post #205

Europe is doing all it can to produce a new Hitler. The anti-Muslim rhetoric can be insane at times, but it's no lie that the imports are from a very different culture and are unlikely to assimilate to a more western one, especially when they outbreed their western counterparts. What concerns me is that all this money and rage will be spent in reaction to these tragic events that kill either less than 100, around 100…

Hitler's only two failings were genocide on an ethnic group and going on a land war against Russia in winter. If the new one doesn't try to kill off European citizens and doesn't declare war on Russia, I fail to see the problem. The current crop of politicians will never solve our problems and say what you want about him, but Hitler got things done.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#209

Post by GrumpyBen »

gotchange wrote: post #166
GrumpyBen wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police found more than 300 illegal weapons during their searches. People that were put under house arrests have a file on them because of their links with terrorists or terrorist organizations. I don't feel the government is abusing the state of emergency, I just feel they should have done all this before the attacks.

Hey people, I have a file on GrumpyBen, can someone please lock him up as he is deemed a threat to public safety? Joking aside, if activists committed any crime, you follow the legal procedures and challenge them in a court of law before a judge and let the defendants present their case in a free trial and see if any of the charges you brought against them sticks, otherwise shut up and leave them alone because if you…

I agree with you and that's actually the case here. If these activists think their house arrest is unfair, they can complain to an administrative judge that will look into their case.

Re: France looking at banning Tor, blocking public Wi-Fi

#210

Post by vmorgulis »

cobaltblue wrote: post #205

Europe is doing all it can to produce a new Hitler. The anti-Muslim rhetoric can be insane at times, but it's no lie that the imports are from a very different culture and are unlikely to assimilate to a more western one, especially when they outbreed their western counterparts. What concerns me is that all this money and rage will be spent in reaction to these tragic events that kill either less than 100, around 100…

Look at this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_J...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_J...

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