Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists

bloombergview.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 282 posts

Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists

#201

Post by rayiner »

afarrell wrote: post #174
nickpsecurity wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great writeup. On top of it, the terror attacks are extremely rare because most people have no interest committing mass-murder and the few that do rarely have motive/opportunity. So, refusing to be terrorized remains the best bet. Far as intelligence agencies, they've not just failed: they've often tried to cover it up, mislead other authorities, or even destroy evidence. The result of incompetent organizations not c…

How do you convince someone to refuse to be terrorized though? If I know someone who feels genuine fear when they hear about these sorts of attacks, what do I say to them? "You're an idiot", "here is some math", and "you're giving them power over you" are not effective approaches. How do I convince someone they should try to not feel fear if they strongly believe their fear is valid and that attempts to invalidate th…

What about people who think it's simply unjust when innocent people are killed in the name of some religious/political end? E.g. I know that there is almost no chance that I'll be the victim of gang violence. But that doesn't mean I have to just accept the existence of gang violence in my community.

Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists

#202

Post by Karunamon »

caskance wrote: post #81
Karunamon wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A logical inference. Given: Things like mass phone surveillance, passively breaking legitimate encryption used by non criminals, introducing vulnerabilities, and other plainly illegal behavior is being deployed against citizens ..with no recourse.. ..which are answered with outright lies when challenged (c.f. Snowden, Clapper's lies before Congress).. ..and the methods are of dubious actual effectiveness when it come…

Never heard of Hanlon's razor?

What is the simpler answer that you think I've overlooked? Corruption in government is not exactly a new phenomenon...

Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists

#203

Post by kobayashi »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #132
kobayashi wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And while at it, maybe even have a limit on the number of targets each agency can investigate, so they chose them wisely. This is an insanely bad idea. I understand where you're coming from, but think about how that would play out in real life. I was going to write it out, but I really think that you can probably figure it out if you do think it through. From the perspective of the intel/policing agency, and from a…

How about actively at one time if not in general? I think if you think through it you can figure it out. Just start with all the terrorists and crooks they already had red flags on but did nothing. Then, look at what excuse they make about connecting the dots in so much data. Then look at the two obvious solutions: (a) Magic, AI, pixie dust tech that spots the evil, relationships, and all key information in nearly un…

When does an investigation start and end? What about when you're close to filling your limit but a few new great leads come in. Now the agents have to go close a ongoing investigation to follow up on a new one. Sounds like a lot of overhead. Not only that, but the fact of modern intel work is that investigations don't operate in a clear, linear progression.

I think that anyone that's had to deal with arbitrary limits imposed from above understands the perverse incentives that they create. This would be another example of administrators trying to fix something that they don't understand.

Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists

#204

Post by fineman »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #187
dionidium wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think you know more about why Al Qaeda and ISIS attack the West than Al Qaeda and ISIS? They have explicitly and repeatedly stated other reasons for their attacks on the West than those you claim. Why don't you believe them? To put it more simply: when Danish cartoonists are threatened for offending Islam, is that also because of imperialism?

> They have explicitly and repeatedly stated other reasons for their attacks on the West than those you claim. And why would you believe them? What they say on TV is also a weapon. People who don't come and negotiate but go straight to killing won't be posting their real goals on their website, they'll rather post something that helps further those goals.

"They" are also as cohesive as Anonymous.

Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists

#205

Post by pharrington »

dionidium wrote: post #156
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that was it, why are these terrorists not attacking Armenia? Or Zambia? Or Mexico? Or pretty much anywhere in Central and South America? All those have a higher percentage of Christians in their populations than the US or anywhere in Western Europe, and they don't have the same level of anti-terrorism focus so are presumably easier targets. Could it simply be that those countries haven't been bombing and invading…

Why do you think you know more about why Al Qaeda and ISIS attack the West than Al Qaeda and ISIS? They have explicitly and repeatedly stated other reasons for their attacks on the West than those you claim. Why don't you believe them? To put it more simply: when Danish cartoonists are threatened for offending Islam, is that also because of imperialism?

ISIS are known masters of propaganda.

Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists

#206

Post by Canada »

pakled_engineer wrote: post #199
criddell wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If surveillance works, then Paris, Beirut, Bagdad et al wouldn't have happed. I don't think surveillance is very good at preventing terrorism, but I think it could be useful to law enforcement after the fact to round up co-conspirators. I bet that once the identity of the Paris attackers was learned, the NSA pulled up a graph several levels deep of everybody they communicated it or associated with. It could very we…

They found one of the terrorists phones dumped in a garbage can outside the theatre they attacked, and got the address of their hideout from the messages, so used just regular police work. All these guys were already on watch lists for fighting in Syria and returning just nobody seems to ever watch the watch list.

If that phone was properly secured then those messages wouldn't have been accessible.

Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists

#207

Post by danieltillett »

russnewcomer wrote: post #69
danieltillett wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are making a rather large logic leap in assuming what politicians and intelligence services want. It is extremely unlikely to be only "keeping people safe".

I am not saying that it is 'only' or that they are entirely guided by that motive. But if you look at that as one of their primary guidances, and assume a lack of technical knowledge in many areas by the lead principals, their actions make sense. Maybe their are ways to help them achieve their goals that have not been conventionally explored?

I am sure most politicians and intelligence people want to keep people safe, the problem is it is unlikely to be their only motivation.

Lets say we do manage to come up with an alternative that would keep people safe without requiring mass surveillance then it would not remove any of the other motivations (say business espionage). I think appealing to a technical solution for a political problem is unlikely to work, but it could be possible.

Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists

#208

Post by fineman »

mc32 wrote: post #124
woah wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about some abstract historical notion of right and wrong. The US has created an environment that fosters terrorism. Whether this is wronger or righter than any historical colonialism by other countries is completely irrelevant. We've created "the YC for terrorists" in the countries we have smashed in the Middle East, and now there is a lot of terrorism.

Ok, so what makes the ME react differently to meddling compared to SE Asia?

Death cult?

Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists

#210

Post by tn13 »

jacquesm wrote: post #101

So, here's my take on all this 'surveillance is good for you'. It more or less proves (to me at least) that the government(s) and the various secret services have absolutely no idea who to monitor specifically. So instead of targeting their operations they want to monitor all of us, just in case something of interest pops out that then allows them to focus their attention. It's a pretty scary thought: just imagine, a…

Hillary Clinton apparently used non secure hard disks to store confidential data and we are unable to prosecute here. US government launched a $1.7 trillion worth war on Iraq which we did not win and not a single person is held accountable. These scums in Washington and despicable beings.
Post reply on HN