Microsoft’s Very Good Day • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft’s Very Good Day

#201

Post by y4mi » Thu, Oct 08, 2015, 3:50 PM UTC

sounds wrote: post #194

detaro wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, if you use such rules there are not many big tech companies left that haven't done such things...

False equivalence fallacy. You can wish Microsoft would die, and still use an iPhone. In fact, much of Apple's success can be attributed to Microsoft fumbling the mobile revolution. In other words, people who use Apple may be doing so directly because of how much worse Microsoft was -- due to Microsoft spending their limited resources on zero-sum tactics like shafting their developer ecosystem. Compete or die. (Micro…

sure, it just makes you an hypocrit.

Re: Microsoft’s Very Good Day

#202

Post by sounds » Thu, Oct 08, 2015, 4:00 PM UTC

y4mi wrote: post #201

sounds wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False equivalence fallacy. You can wish Microsoft would die, and still use an iPhone. In fact, much of Apple's success can be attributed to Microsoft fumbling the mobile revolution. In other words, people who use Apple may be doing so directly because of how much worse Microsoft was -- due to Microsoft spending their limited resources on zero-sum tactics like shafting their developer ecosystem. Compete or die. (Micro…

sure, it just makes you an hypocrit.

I personally don't use any iThings. y4mi, do you have concrete examples of what Microsoft has done that has significantly improved end users' ability to run Free Software?

Re: Microsoft’s Very Good Day

#203

Post by ksk » Thu, Oct 08, 2015, 4:00 PM UTC

Microsoft to me has always been good at 'businessy' stuff. Embrace partners, embrace developers, and keep users somewhat satisfied. If you help others make money, they're going to love you. Apple has been good at 'designy' stuff. Wow and embrace users, keep developers and partners somewhat satisfied. This explains why Apple doesn't really care about backwards compat, or communicating/co-coordinating releases with partners, etc. It looks like MS is taking a leaf out of Apples book. I wonder if they can continue to do the other stuff as well.

Re: Microsoft’s Very Good Day

#204

Post by hga » Thu, Oct 08, 2015, 4:35 PM UTC

WorldWideWayne wrote: post #196

hga wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While your request is not in principle unreasonable, it's way too much work for me to prove it to your satisfaction, or my satisfaction in a formal, balanced, I'd be willing to publish it way. E.g. I'd forgotten about I4i, despite the prominence of the case. I'm basically asking you, absent either of us going beyond searches like https://www.google.com/search?q=list+of+microsoft+crimes ^_^, to trust my observations o…

You're acting like you hate the company just because they screwed their competitors. Do you hate other non-tech companies who screwed their competitors or is your hatred in this category especially reserved for Microsoft? Do you speak ill of banking corporations as often as you do of Microsoft? Also, if you run Apple hardware at all do yourself a favor and take a look at all the screwed up shit that Apple has done be…

You're making an awful lot of assumptions here.

I don't hate Microsoft today, and only did during the period they posed an existential threat to Linux/FOSS (and it was a relatively gentle sort of hate, made particularly easy by Vista).

I don't run Apple hardware, never have in my life. In part because I count them as worse to users (well, prior to own goals like Vista and Windows 8), but also because as of late they've been behaving particularly bad. Made that decision in 1987, who knew, avoiding particularly closed ecosystems turned out to be a good idea all around in the long term.

I don't "speak ill of banking corporations" because I don't see, well, any that I can think of offhand in the US, being actively, aggressively evil. Stupid in many cases, for sure, but that's a different thing, and not axiomatically akin to Microsoft's crimes.

Re: Microsoft’s Very Good Day

#205

Post by dump100 » Thu, Oct 08, 2015, 4:45 PM UTC

vegabook wrote: post #40

delish wrote: post #14

I struggle with changing my perception of Microsoft. I still characterize them by their Halloween documents and efforts to destroy Netscape. I would recommend the Surface to friends or family, which is a recent change. But I would never use Microsoft products. And not just because I'd be giving up years of Linux folk-knowledge. Childishly, when I watch a youtube video of someone far more skilled than me programming i…

I've taken a liking to a lot of what Microsoft is doing. I like the open source efforts, I like the RX libraries, the hardware looks great, to my mind the Metro interface is actually better than IOS/Android. I even like Windows 10. Problem is I could never go back to the DOS command prompt. I only moved to the *nix prompt about 6-7 years ago, and I could never go back. I know I can do cygwin etc but that still feels…

choco install gow

Re: Microsoft’s Very Good Day

#206

Post by dump100 » Thu, Oct 08, 2015, 4:45 PM UTC

vegabook wrote: post #40

delish wrote: post #14

I struggle with changing my perception of Microsoft. I still characterize them by their Halloween documents and efforts to destroy Netscape. I would recommend the Surface to friends or family, which is a recent change. But I would never use Microsoft products. And not just because I'd be giving up years of Linux folk-knowledge. Childishly, when I watch a youtube video of someone far more skilled than me programming i…

I've taken a liking to a lot of what Microsoft is doing. I like the open source efforts, I like the RX libraries, the hardware looks great, to my mind the Metro interface is actually better than IOS/Android. I even like Windows 10. Problem is I could never go back to the DOS command prompt. I only moved to the *nix prompt about 6-7 years ago, and I could never go back. I know I can do cygwin etc but that still feels…

choco install gow

Re: Microsoft’s Very Good Day

#207

Post by tacticus » Thu, Oct 08, 2015, 5:00 PM UTC

ygra wrote: post #121

harkyns_castle wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pleasantly surprised by powershell? I don't know what to say. I have to essentially copy and paste fragments of things that work, it's so arcane. Its like writing 90's Java on a command line. Its revolting. Still to this day I can't even fscking grep.

> I have to essentially copy and paste fragments of things that work, it's so arcane. I have about the same problem when it comes to bash. While bash may very well be described as "arcane" I believe this is mostly a problem of unwillingness to learn something new or different. Understanding how PowerShell works takes a bit of time and re-thinking. It doesn't help that there's so much downright bad PowerShell code out…

Why are you comparing powershell to bash. the more accurate comparison is python.

Re: Microsoft’s Very Good Day

#208

Post by tacticus » Thu, Oct 08, 2015, 5:09 PM UTC

Raesan wrote: post #160

harkyns_castle wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pleasantly surprised by powershell? I don't know what to say. I have to essentially copy and paste fragments of things that work, it's so arcane. Its like writing 90's Java on a command line. Its revolting. Still to this day I can't even fscking grep.

When powershell comes up, someone always gripes about how they can't do this or that like they can in bash. I'm not going to deny that grep is nicer to use that the powershell equivalent (Select-String). But you don't configure Windows and other software in the Microsoft ecosystem by messing around with text. For example, if you had a new user and you wanted to set up an account, email address, and phone number (so A…

the problem with powershell is that it is incredibly stupid if you're not on a full windows stack (desktops, servers and near enough to everything inbetween) and running the most recent version of windows (ever tried getting winrm installed and reliably working on a 2008 box?)

perhaps if they were not too opposed early on to horrible open source things and just one of the languages that already fit fairly well in that area (python for example) they wouldn't have had to go out of their way to make pretty shitty hacks (i really wonder if anyone in the powershell\winrm team did any testing or development with the machines more than 10 metres away)

Re: Microsoft’s Very Good Day

#209

Post by ChuckMcM » Thu, Oct 08, 2015, 5:30 PM UTC

tluyben2 wrote: post #200

ChuckMcM wrote: post #185

I could not help myself, I had to get a surface book, it may end up in the pile of things with great potential but I had to give it a shot. Two devices were in the running for my 2015 tablet HW refresh, the Lenovo Yoga 3 and the iPad Pro. This sort of came out of left field. It has a lot to live up to, I use my iPad every day and for a variety of things, but something I always wanted to do on my iPad, sketch, wasn't…

I for one am curious how much battery life you can really pull out of it. When I see 12 hours on the spec I usually don't get more than 7-8 and that's right there in the 'not enough for a day' zone for me.

Agreed, if it is less than 9 in the "real world" I'll be pretty disappointed. The thing that makes iPads work for me is that they save a lot of power when they are asleep, and they come back instantly when they are woken up (very phone like in that regard). If Microsoft has given W10 that ability on their Surface hardware it could do the trick for me. (the only time I go 8 - 9 hours straight on battery is when I'm travelling)

Re: Microsoft’s Very Good Day

#210

Post by exelius » Thu, Oct 08, 2015, 5:41 PM UTC

hga wrote: post #183

exelius wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People like to anthropomorphize companies as having a conscience, but you're right: they're just autonomous control structures with the goal of making as much money as possible. Sometimes their leaders will make bad decisions prioritizing money now over money later, but ultimately such decisions are often just as bad for the long-term health of the company as they are for the market (even though they may provide a sh…

You're forgetting the direct example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Nacchio He was convicted of 19 counts of insider trading in Qwest stock on April 19, 2007 – charges he and many others claim are U.S. government retaliation for his refusal to give customer data to the National Security Agency in February, 2001. Given the iffiness of such charges when it's your own company's stock, we have to at least entertai…

Yeah; I remember that one too. The Smisek one was just more recent, and Smisek was also a much more visible CEO than Nacchio given United's place in the airline industry. From what I can tell, the Smisek issue may have genuinely involved some wrongdoing, but Smisek may only be involved because the ultimate target is Chris Christie. But he was a titan of his industry, and when he left there was no retirement party or farewell video: just a new guy sitting in his chair and a short press release explaining that a change had been made. Nobody is immune.

But yeah, that's the jist of it. Refusing to comply with an NSA order will likely just end you up in jail on something else because the government has the power to lock you up. So we can't hold the companies who complied with them entirely responsible, as those companies are made up of individuals who have families to think of.