...except for Jeff's own habits. Now I don't actually have a bad view of Amazon on the whole, but Bezos and his personality is well known for many years as demanding to the point of monomaniacal, and often cowing of others. That isn't just taking a pot shot, that's a repeated observation from many people over many years. It's like saying Larry Ellison likes boats or Scott McNealy hates dentists.
Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices
201–210 of 223 posts
Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
Counterpoint: Amazon's use and enforcement of noncompetes.
This is true I guess. I haven't seen their contract. I've never had an issue with any noncompetes in my contracts though. I can see why you wouldn't want to employ and train people in your business only for them to go to a direct competitor. I think that's fair, you just need to look for a good job in an unrelated business.
If a company wants me to not work in my field after I leave them, they can pay me for the condition. At a multiple of going market rates.
The reason people can work for the competition is that they're not slaves. There are few businesses Amazon doesn't compete with (all of retail, books, publishing, tech).
If they want their workers to stay, make the prospect attractive.
Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices
#203First world problems like no other... We're talking about highly paid professionals working at a rather cushy job all things considered. It's like listening to rich kids complain about having blue M&M's touching the red M&M's in their bowl of candy. Nothing in this whole bit of drama is shocking other then I'm not quite sure why Amazon is being singled out. All of the complaints made are systematic problems in any la…
>I would expect to be "managed out" if I showed up every day expecting to coast through with the bare minimum - who would want to work at a company where that is acceptable?
So doing the "bare minimum" leads to being sacked? In that case it isn't the bare minimum. In your world the bare minimum is apparently what employees are assigned to do plus an arbitrary amount on top. Presumably workers have to gamble their livelihood on a blind auction of their free time and health in a race to the bottom in order to put a few more billion in Bezos' coffers.
Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I just don't believe it's accurate. I have no idea why would you accuse GP of lying. You don't know him. Do you routinely judge if a person tells the truth based on some words he used? Also, you confuse the GP's feelings about the situation right now with his attitude back then. Back when it happened, he didn't know of a 3 months long plot against him. Now he does know. He was shown the ( obscenity censored because…
> I have no idea why would you accuse GP of lying. He claims that he "politely" told someone to "fuck off". It's not really a question of lying, but a question of possibility. You can't politely tell someone to fuck off. Either you didn't tell them to fuck off or you didn't do it politely. "Fuck off" is not polite. It's not supposed to be polite. If you politely ask someone to leave you alone, you're not telling them…
What a time to be alive. Telling someone to mind her own business is considered rude.
Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I have no idea why would you accuse GP of lying. He claims that he "politely" told someone to "fuck off". It's not really a question of lying, but a question of possibility. You can't politely tell someone to fuck off. Either you didn't tell them to fuck off or you didn't do it politely. "Fuck off" is not polite. It's not supposed to be polite. If you politely ask someone to leave you alone, you're not telling them…
What a time to be alive. Telling someone to mind her own business is considered rude.
Out of curiosity, which bucket does your case fall into?
1. You've had numerous bad experiences with HR across multiple companies, leading you to label "99%" of HR as rotten.
2. You've had one or two bad experiences with HR, and you're extrapolating from that and just assuming that 99% of HR is rotten.
3. Some other option I don't see.
Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
What a time to be alive. Telling someone to mind her own business is considered rude.
Out of curiosity, which bucket does your case fall into? 1. You've had numerous bad experiences with HR across multiple companies, leading you to label "99%" of HR as rotten. 2. You've had one or two bad experiences with HR, and you're extrapolating from that and just assuming that 99% of HR is rotten. 3. Some other option I don't see.
Always had bad experiences with HR, with around 6-7 different companies. Talking with colleagues on the same industry and others found out that my experiences are not isolated incidents, but quite the opposite they've observed pretty similar things. And finally, have a few friends that work themselves into HR and outsourcing (for SAP & Oracle) so I can speak for that environment pretty well, it is a rotten field. And yeah I'm extrapolating from that.
I can tell you something, I probably talked about this subject at least 100 times during my "professional life" with many different people, I have yet to hear a good experience from someone regarding their HR department.
Mind sharing yourself which bucket do you fall into?
Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
What a time to be alive. Telling someone to mind her own business is considered rude.
Out of curiosity, which bucket does your case fall into? 1. You've had numerous bad experiences with HR across multiple companies, leading you to label "99%" of HR as rotten. 2. You've had one or two bad experiences with HR, and you're extrapolating from that and just assuming that 99% of HR is rotten. 3. Some other option I don't see.
It's been stated by many posters in this thread that HR is not your friend; they are not there to protect you, but to protect the company from you; and avoid going to HR with any problem you may have.
That's it's better to leave, if you can, than go to HR.
Coming from multiple sources, I'd say that's pretty damning to HR.
About Amazon.. I've never worked there. But I know people who have. I believe the NYT article.
Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices
#208I've been reading various comments about this around the internet and many people are saying they will stop ordering from Amazon because of it. These white collar workers are highly paid, and not forced to be there. Most of them could easily find another job someplace else (and it sounds like many do). I just can't feel bad for them. If you don't want to work throughout your vacation, go find another job that won't m…
You know, what makes you think people have such mobility? It's not easy to just "go find another job".
You married, got kids, you can't afford to go find another job. At least not quickly. And quietly. Cause if your manager finds out your interviewing (and it's a small world) you're dead.
I don't suppose you live outside the bubble? It's a different world in say, Kansas.
Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
It depends on the team and department in every company. You can always find one or two terrible anecdotes.
Does 300 people count as more than "one or two" terrible anecdotes? Cause thats how many were in the group that were having a miserable time when I was at Amazon... it was a significant proportion of the engineers at HQ at that time, possibly %60.
That's quite worrying. I wonder why they haven't made a bigger hit in the glassdoor rating.
Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
Out of curiosity, which bucket does your case fall into? 1. You've had numerous bad experiences with HR across multiple companies, leading you to label "99%" of HR as rotten. 2. You've had one or two bad experiences with HR, and you're extrapolating from that and just assuming that 99% of HR is rotten. 3. Some other option I don't see.
It's been stated by many posters in this thread that HR is not your friend; they are not there to protect you, but to protect the company from you; and avoid going to HR with any problem you may have. That's it's better to leave, if you can, than go to HR. Coming from multiple sources, I'd say that's pretty damning to HR. About Amazon.. I've never worked there. But I know people who have. I believe the NYT article.
> Coming from multiple sources, I'd say that's pretty damning to HR.
I'd say that a thread full of people griping about HR is not very damning at all. People like to gripe. People who have normal interactions with HR generally don't have much to say in this kind of thread. People who have had a bad experience with HR are happy to vent. If multiple sources complaining is damning, then just about every mid to large-size company must be terrible, because just about every company of size has at least a handful of people (consumers or employees, really) who are delighted to tell you about how horrible their experience with the company was.
I agree that HR is not your friend, and their job is to protect the company. That's logically pretty reasonable since they are employed by the company. Likewise, the sales team is there for the company. And so is the customer service team. And so is the executive team. And so is everyone else, because that's who pays them. That doesn't make them evil or rotten, though. Nor are they evil or rotten just because a few bad people are employed there. Some devs are petty assholes, too.