Windows 10 uses your bandwidth to send other people updates • Hacker News Board

Re: Windows 10 uses your bandwidth to send other people updates

#21

Post by acdha » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:39 PM UTC

osipovas wrote: post #6

They have to recoup costs since they are offering this upgrade for free. If it's saving pennies on CDN bandwidth so be it!

The primary use is for the local network where this is rather a nice benefit – no CDN is going to help when you have a fixed amount of bandwidth divided by every Windows PC in the building.

It'd be interesting to see how it handles nearby node discovery since e.g. the average cable modem user often has far more bandwidth in their neighborhood compared to their ISP's uplink.

Re: Windows 10 uses your bandwidth to send other people updates

#22

Post by andrewstuart2 » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:40 PM UTC

smhenderson wrote: post #5

I'm all about peer to peer to make efficient use of resources but this, to me, is another feature that should be opt in by default. If you are like me you have a decent connection, know for a fact you're not utilizing as much as you're given and understand how a P2P protocol can help you and those around you. But your average user doesn't really know what this all means without explanation. IMO most people probably h…

If they were going to change anything, I think the LAN-only policy they employ for Enterprise and Education should probably be the default.

That said, instead of changing anything I'd so much rather see MS take this and run with it, working with ISPs to help them understand that this traffic should be exempt (or even rewarded as a bandwidth credit) because it'll lower ISP costs and improve customer satisfaction simlutaneously.

Re: Windows 10 uses your bandwidth to send other people updates

#23

Post by belorn » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:40 PM UTC

If a Microsoft can get away with sharing customers resources like this, could a bank do the same? When forming an account, they add some default opt-out service to "share" resources between accounts in order to help people get a better loan experience.

Re: Windows 10 uses your bandwidth to send other people updates

#24

Post by ctdonath » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:44 PM UTC

na85 wrote: post #17

Remind me again why people on HN are so keen to embrace Microsoft? Seems like they're still up to the same dirty, user-hostile tricks as they've always been since the 90's.

Actually, Win10 looks a whole lot more subversively aggressive in the quest for "user convenience". Free upgrade! ads in you Start menu. Friends easily join your secured network! by offering password to anyone who asks. Better upgrade distributions! by choking your bandwidth and abusing data caps. Every objectionable feature can be turned off! if you have any idea it's on, and nigh-unto-punitive limitations imposed for opting out.

IIRC, Bill Gates famously sent a memo amounting to "you've got to be kidding me" regarding user experience in a current/new version. Maybe it's time for a repeat.

Re: Windows 10 uses your bandwidth to send other people updates

#25

Post by nadams » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:44 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #3

talmand wrote: post #2

Hopefully this doesn't get people flagged as illegal torrent users by lazy ISPs.

I kind of hope it does. Nothing will educate people about the difference between protocol and content like making a ton of customers angry by banning them without cause.

> Nothing will educate people about the difference between protocol and content like making a ton of customers angry by banning them without cause.

When people think of torrenting copyrighted material as some sort of talent that they are proud to have (I've meet plenty of people who are actually feel proud/clever to torrent games/movies/shows) - they honestly think Comcast is/would be a bad company for disconnecting them.

At an undisclosed university they had a wireless system which you had to login with your university login. Students would login (thus giving the ability to track usage to the individual student) and torrent copyrighted material (they actually had to send out a campus wide email about it telling people to stop). That's how out of touch with logic people are. To my knowledge no student was prosecuted but if the RIAA/MPAA was angry enough I'm sure a lot of students would have a really bad day.

My point being - they won't be able to understand why the ISP is banning them - they will just think it's unfair.

Re: Windows 10 uses your bandwidth to send other people updates

#26

Post by ilyanep » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:45 PM UTC

Is anyone compiling a list of the settings I'll need to check when I finally make the jump from Windows 7 to 10 in a few months? I'd like to be on a newer OS, but between this and Cortana and some sort of XBL overlay that apparently messes with game performance, I'm going to need to do research into the optimal setup first.

Re: Windows 10 uses your bandwidth to send other people updates

#27

Post by ctdonath » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:46 PM UTC

osipovas wrote: post #6

They have to recoup costs since they are offering this upgrade for free. If it's saving pennies on CDN bandwidth so be it!

Thus I have learned to pay for software, often dissuaded by "free". The money has to come from somewhere, and "he who pays the piper names the tune."

Re: Windows 10 uses your bandwidth to send other people updates

#28

Post by smhenderson » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:46 PM UTC

unsignedint wrote: post #16

smhenderson wrote: post #5

I'm all about peer to peer to make efficient use of resources but this, to me, is another feature that should be opt in by default. If you are like me you have a decent connection, know for a fact you're not utilizing as much as you're given and understand how a P2P protocol can help you and those around you. But your average user doesn't really know what this all means without explanation. IMO most people probably h…

Or perhaps the default should have been "PCs on my local network." I knew this feature was coming (wasn't paying attention to the details of it, though) and actually thought it is a great feature for actually "reducing" bandwidth usage.

Yeah, that's a good idea too. Kind of WSUS for the home.

The article does say Windows 10 Enterprise and Education have the feature enabled, but only for the local network.

So at least that's a sensible default for business/schools.

Re: Windows 10 uses your bandwidth to send other people updates

#29

Post by Animats » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:48 PM UTC

Microsoft seems to be setting all their defaults to "screw the user". This isn't good. Distributing Windows 10 as a drive-by install that takes over your machine and turns it into a spamming node is really sleazy.

Microsoft is giving away Windows 10. That's a huge problem. It's not a compelling product they can get people to pay for, unlike all previous versions of Windows. Microsoft, for the first time, has to claw its revenue out of the user some other way.

For decades, Microsoft has been hard on their competitors and hardware suppliers, and they've had antitrust problems. But Microsoft didn't usually apply pain to their users, who were their primary customers. With Windows 10, that all changes. Windows users, you are no longer the customer. You are the product.

This may not end well for Microsoft, because most of their revenue is in the B2B space. Business customers don't like being the product.

Re: Windows 10 uses your bandwidth to send other people updates

#30

Post by noblethrasher » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 5:49 PM UTC

belorn wrote: post #23

If a Microsoft can get away with sharing customers resources like this, could a bank do the same? When forming an account, they add some default opt-out service to "share" resources between accounts in order to help people get a better loan experience.

Not sure as to the level of sarcasm you intended, but banks already do this[1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking