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Ask HN: Am I excessive in wanting to fire a dev?

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Re: Ask HN: Am I excessive in wanting to fire a dev?

#21

Post by gqvijay »

Being angry is fine but lashing out and saying "..you claim to be better than PHP dev when you don't care about.." serves no purpose other than reacting to your emotions...ESPECIALLY as a leader. If you said that publicly in front of others, that's even worst and you should seriously think about getting mentored by someone you trust. (regardless of how ridiculously clueless he is)

Being assertive is important but being an asshole just adds distance between you and your team. You gain respect on the former and loose respect on the latter. I agree with partisan: 1. Take a deep breath and run it by your "boss" to gain perspective 2. Apologize to your developer for the poor choice of words and tone and tell him that you regret, and it would never happen again. 3. Once that's done, ask: "But do help me understand what you did here and why."

If he repeats his mistakes, take the "I don't think we are a fit" or "this arrangement is probably not a match for us" or whatever. After that's done, you can go to your boss and vent some more. :)

Hope it helps.

Re: Ask HN: Am I excessive in wanting to fire a dev?

#22

Post by zer00eyz »

He has a PhD...

A woman I once knew told me this story. Her friend was a single mom while in grad school, when her water broke she took herself to the hospital on the bus... After she finished her PHD she was unable to cross the street without help.

Getting a PHD on a topic does not grant you some immense skill with said topic (it can...)

However you should have done the following:

1. Production comes first, if you CAN fix it, do it. Production problems are the only time when you can and should be the HERO!

2. Once production is fixed, THEN you give the person shit... and the way you do that is by making them CYA --- your PHD should have been writing the same test for EVERY public function in your system to catch the mistake for as long as it took.

3. Its a job, you don't have to be NICE... however being an asshole isn't going to get you anywhere.

4. If you have to put someone down, at least be funny about it, or try to be. I used to work in an office that had "tokens of shame" (beanie babies). Someone would mess something up, and the token would sit on their desk, till someone else saw fit to "pass it on" to the next person who dropped the ball. The other favorite is "I'll bet you a dollar this is your fault" of course no one ever thinks it is, and they take the bet (you have to get dollars out on the table) --- then when you show them make a big show of taking the buck.

Re: Ask HN: Am I excessive in wanting to fire a dev?

#23

Post by brudgers »

To me the root issues are a team culture where:

1. Code ownership is not collective.

2. People's jobs are at risk over individual mistakes.

3. Team members are inclined toward bickering rather than just solving the problem.

4. Outrageous behavior toward other team members is deemed acceptable.

Good luck.

Re: Ask HN: Am I excessive in wanting to fire a dev?

#24

Post by Aeolun »

So, he attempted to fix the problem, didn't do that correctly, you were an asshole about it, and he called you out on that.

It seems to me this problem (and the related ignorance) could've been fixed in 10 minutes of working together instead of 36 hours of fighting about it.

Re: Ask HN: Am I excessive in wanting to fire a dev?

#25

Post by kenzokai »

SFjulie1 wrote: post #8
paulhauggis wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the problem. Your attitude has probably negatively effected the people that work for you.

because companies are about attitude now and not any more about earning money? Sometimes it is all about technical details, costing, pricing efficiency and getting things done. Because at the end, it is all about the money. And defects are expensive. And you may prefer an efficient worker with bad attitude than a cool bro that introduces bugs in code like a priest in a brothel. Because bugs cost more money than assho…

This is what makes startups so special, and powerful.

Everybody now knows (or should know) that the more modern type of developer environment - wear what you want, arrive when you want, stay home when you want, have all the free coffee you want - makes them MORE productive.

Pissing them off or giving them a shitty environment to work in makes them less productive.

And productivity = money.

Of course defects cost money. One defect means you lose money once.

Less productivity means you lose money every single day.

Re: Ask HN: Am I excessive in wanting to fire a dev?

#26

Post by SFjulie1 »

saywahat wrote: post #18
SFjulie1 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because companies are about attitude now and not any more about earning money? Sometimes it is all about technical details, costing, pricing efficiency and getting things done. Because at the end, it is all about the money. And defects are expensive. And you may prefer an efficient worker with bad attitude than a cool bro that introduces bugs in code like a priest in a brothel. Because bugs cost more money than assho…

You caused extra downtime for the customer so you could make an example of someone and relish in your victory. You're winning an argument while you lose the war.

Well, bugs will come back later if he does not updates his knowledge.

But, yes I was thinking the same myself. Whatever, I lost the war.

In fact, I prefer a boring life with less bugs on the long term and a bad reputation. But, it does not seems like a wise choice given the reactions.

I fully acknowledge my inadaptation to the actual era.

I think, I prefer to focus on the agenda of tomorrow and the tasks that must be done. You are right, customers come first.

There are battles that are not worth to be fought after all.

Well, tomorrow is another day. Thanks you all.

Re: Ask HN: Am I excessive in wanting to fire a dev?

#28

Post by gull »

SFjulie1 wrote: post #6
codingdave wrote: post #4

If you cannot politely and professionally give criticism to a developer (even better, mentor them), and instead choose to belittle them, then the problem is with your leadership style, not the developer.

Me asking politely the bug fix, and the altercation are separated by a 36 hours scope, with supports' phone ringing like hell because customers wanted to use their application. And kind of me shielding the devs from the operations wanting feedback and a quick resolution. Production is noisy.

It's ok to say no.

Just as it's important to be agreeable under uncertainty, it's important to say no under certainty.

"No, sorry, it doesn't make sense to start sniffing the wire protocol and checking the OS/hardware before testing the application logic first."

Re: Ask HN: Am I excessive in wanting to fire a dev?

#29

Post by PerfectElement »

SFjulie1 wrote: post #6
codingdave wrote: post #4

If you cannot politely and professionally give criticism to a developer (even better, mentor them), and instead choose to belittle them, then the problem is with your leadership style, not the developer.

Me asking politely the bug fix, and the altercation are separated by a 36 hours scope, with supports' phone ringing like hell because customers wanted to use their application. And kind of me shielding the devs from the operations wanting feedback and a quick resolution. Production is noisy.

If paying customers were waiting for the bug to be fixed and you knew how to fix it, why would you wait 36 hours? I'm glad I'm not your customer.
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