The Uber Economy Requires a New Category of Worker • Hacker News Board

Re: The Uber Economy Requires a New Category of Worker

#21

Post by jfoster » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 9:06 AM UTC

deegles wrote: post #8

I don't see anyone besides Uber winning in the Uber economy. It's right in the name. Forcing Uber and other ride-sharing companies to classify their resources as employees will only give them further incentive to automate. Once that happens (5 years, 10 max) it will be a moot point how a driver would be classified. Very few people wake up in the morning and say "Gee, I'm so excited to drive for Uber today! I don't ne…

It also works out pretty well for Uber's customers, compared with how things were before Uber.

Re: The Uber Economy Requires a New Category of Worker

#22

Post by makomk » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 9:27 AM UTC

natrius wrote: post #14

littletimmy wrote: post #3

Is this a joke? We do not need a new category of worker just because a few corporations decide that they do not want to provide their workers with benefits. The benefits that come with the employee designation are the bare minimum . A company that cannot afford to provide those to employees should not exist.

Imagine that we could eliminate Uber and connect drivers directly to riders with the same experience as Uber's app. Nothing has changed about the nature of the driver's work, but there's no entity to be an employer in the first place. Employee benefits for this kind of work just won't exist. Technology is making it easier for people to provide services for a wide pool of individuals without needing a company to emplo…

Nothing would change, except that there'd no longer be an Uber controlling the prices they charge and the cars they use and taking a cut. In other words, the thing that would change is that they'd actually be independent contractors with control over their own working conditions.

Re: The Uber Economy Requires a New Category of Worker

#23

Post by fwn » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 9:28 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #2

From the article: " But it would ameliorate one of the worst problems with the 1099 economy without fundamentally quashing the business model, namely pay that works out to less than the minimum wage." The entire purpose of labor law is to quash that "business model". Unions. The people who brought you the weekend.

The church & the productivity increase brought the weekend.

Re: The Uber Economy Requires a New Category of Worker

#24

Post by escanda » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 9:32 AM UTC

natrius wrote: post #14

littletimmy wrote: post #3

Is this a joke? We do not need a new category of worker just because a few corporations decide that they do not want to provide their workers with benefits. The benefits that come with the employee designation are the bare minimum . A company that cannot afford to provide those to employees should not exist.

Imagine that we could eliminate Uber and connect drivers directly to riders with the same experience as Uber's app. Nothing has changed about the nature of the driver's work, but there's no entity to be an employer in the first place. Employee benefits for this kind of work just won't exist. Technology is making it easier for people to provide services for a wide pool of individuals without needing a company to emplo…

That's kind of similar to oppose the employee status because eventually employers will meet candidates who don't demand the benefits required by a legal contract. That's why that is simply illegal.

Re: The Uber Economy Requires a New Category of Worker

#25

Post by pgeorgi » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 9:38 AM UTC

natrius wrote: post #14

littletimmy wrote: post #3

Is this a joke? We do not need a new category of worker just because a few corporations decide that they do not want to provide their workers with benefits. The benefits that come with the employee designation are the bare minimum . A company that cannot afford to provide those to employees should not exist.

Imagine that we could eliminate Uber and connect drivers directly to riders with the same experience as Uber's app. Nothing has changed about the nature of the driver's work, but there's no entity to be an employer in the first place. Employee benefits for this kind of work just won't exist. Technology is making it easier for people to provide services for a wide pool of individuals without needing a company to emplo…

In the scheme you propose there's also no single entity that defines the pricing at any time, so the nature of the drivers work changes (for example: they can set up their own price structure).

Unfortunately algorithms and implementations for truly decentralized auctions (for the pricing) and trust models (for the feedback mechanism) and actually transferring the money without resorting to cash-in-hand (which, for some reason, seems to be highly unpopular in the US) are hard and by design less profitable than setting up a central instance that controls everything for a fee (eg 20% of revenue).

You're right that under such a system, every driver would be self-employed with as many benefits as they pay for themselves. Uber isn't that system.

Re: The Uber Economy Requires a New Category of Worker

#26

Post by pgeorgi » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 10:16 AM UTC

bkor wrote: post #19

modeless wrote: post #11

Regular cab drivers are usually classified as independent contractors too. I didn't see a bunch of people lobbying for them to be employees before Uber came on the scene. I also don't see the people who are mad at Uber caring about regular cab drivers (e.g. this article doesn't mention that issue at all and neither do the comments here). This makes me cynically think that the source of all this recent noise about the…

> This makes me cynically think that the source of all this recent noise about the issue is hardball political tactics Above attitude is pretty poor. There are many reasons why Uber(Pop) is not acceptable from a European perspective. In various countries in Europe the attitude is more about employees and social security. E.g. if I read the article I just arguments for customers and companies. But who is going to pay…

In Europe it's not just the social security angle.

There are laws and there's a US company ignoring these laws, with more money than is good for them (much larger and powerful than "Uber's powerful and connected opponents" that the GP spoke of). That matches every stereotype of US companies that try to force the American Way onto Europe.

I can't think of many ways to make it easier for the media to produce a scandal (which is how they make their money).

And to some degree it looks plausible: Uber is larger than most of the incumbents (I'm pretty sure that they're larger than any of the existing taxi companies in Germany). They're handed injunctions against the way they operate all the time. They don't seem to care to work within the legal framework (There might have been options in Germany - but they require some amount of good will by elected officials, something that probably dried up by now), but simply want to destroy it.

Re: The Uber Economy Requires a New Category of Worker

#27

Post by dylanjermiah » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 10:41 AM UTC

deegles wrote: post #8

I don't see anyone besides Uber winning in the Uber economy. It's right in the name. Forcing Uber and other ride-sharing companies to classify their resources as employees will only give them further incentive to automate. Once that happens (5 years, 10 max) it will be a moot point how a driver would be classified. Very few people wake up in the morning and say "Gee, I'm so excited to drive for Uber today! I don't ne…

People work for money, not a shocking revelation.

>'Tiny drip of income into the drivers wallets'

80% goes to drivers.

Re: The Uber Economy Requires a New Category of Worker

#28

Post by dylanjermiah » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 10:43 AM UTC

noja wrote: post #4

The more I learn about Uber, the less I want an Uber Economy.

Talk to the actual drivers, not the press.

Re: The Uber Economy Requires a New Category of Worker

#29

Post by dogma1138 » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 10:55 AM UTC

modeless wrote: post #11

Regular cab drivers are usually classified as independent contractors too. I didn't see a bunch of people lobbying for them to be employees before Uber came on the scene. I also don't see the people who are mad at Uber caring about regular cab drivers (e.g. this article doesn't mention that issue at all and neither do the comments here). This makes me cynically think that the source of all this recent noise about the…

Cab drivers have a union that provides them with services most importantly proper liabilities and damages insurance.

They are also provided benefits through the union such as health insurance and pensions.

Cab licenses are also regulated to ensure that the driver is fit to ferry passengers, some countries even require them to pass a CPR / emergency treatment courses.

The local regulations also ensure that the vehicle that is used is road worthy even in places that do not require a yearly checkup for all vehicles.

Re: The Uber Economy Requires a New Category of Worker

#30

Post by acd » Fri, Jul 10, 2015, 11:14 AM UTC

Another pets.com I do not understand what is so revolutionary about Uber especially in countries which as good Taxi companies. For me Uber is a hyped glorified black taxi.

$50 billion valuation for a taxi company common!