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Is it better to buy or rent?

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21–30 of 105 posts

Re: Is it better to buy or rent?

#21
post #15
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A home you live in is almost always a net cost. Plus it "prevents" you from moving somewhere else. Or let's say, it increases the friction of moving somewhere else. Most home owners stay at the same place for the rest of their lives.

On the plus side, once you've found somewhere you like you can stay there as long as you want. If you rent it's up to the owner how long you can live there

True, but there's always the risk that where you like living changes over time and becomes HELL 20-30 years down the road. And I have seen this happen among several of my family members.

When you rent, sure, you can't stay forever, but you have visibility at 2 years down the road (depends on the country where you live, but where I do the owner cannot get you out for the duration of your lease, and that's usually 2 years).

Re: Is it better to buy or rent?

#22
post #11

Does this take into account the risk of a housing market crash? For me, the biggest reason for renting rather than buying is to avoid putting all my bags in one basket; I wouldn't buy $500k worth of shares of one company, so spending $500k on a single house seems similarly risky.

You're looking at it the exact right way. Risk is a two sided-coin. If the local housing market does well, you can make out like a bandit. If it doesn't, you can lose a lot of money. No different than owning $500K worth of share in a public company. Nothing wrong with buying a house, but people should be careful not to have their net worth all tied up in a single asset (house or not). The one rule I've heard is 90 mi…

I disagree, this view is too simplistic.

It's very different to owning shares in a company. You have to either buy a house or rent. You cant opt out entirely, whereas you can with shares.

By choosing to rent, you are betting on the housing market being stagnant or falling, if house prices shoot up and you opted to rent, you will need to now pay higher rents or a bigger mortgage.

So there is risk in renting too

If you decided to rent in london instead of buying 3 years ago, you'd be tens of thousands down

Re: Is it better to buy or rent?

#23

Does this take into account the risk of a housing market crash? For me, the biggest reason for renting rather than buying is to avoid putting all my bags in one basket; I wouldn't buy $500k worth of shares of one company, so spending $500k on a single house seems similarly risky.

It's not clear to me that, say, $500k of assorted shares + $500k of house is worse than $1M of assorted shares. You've got more in a single asset, which is bad, but you're diversified into more asset classes, which is good.

The picture is a bit different if that $500k is all your assets or even substantially more than all your assets (a common situation for a first-time buyer with a big mortgage). Which suggests you should rent until you've built up substantial investments of other sorts, and then consider buying.

Historically, I think the variability in price of a single house hasn't been any worse than that of, say, a typical index fund. (Disclaimer: I haven't actually checked the figures.)

Of course, all the above treats houses as just another investment. This is a useful perspective, but you're going to be living in your house too, and questions like "can I redesign the bathroom?" and "if there's a flood or an earthquake, am I liable for fixing/replacing everything?" and "am I bothered by the possibility that my landlord might just throw me out one day?" and "can I get up and move somewhere else with minimal hassle?" may be just as important to you as "what is likely to leave me with more valuable assets 20 years from now?".

Re: Is it better to buy or rent?

#24
post #14

The money is certainly important. But buying is better than renting in many ways. Want to rip out your kitchen and have a new one? Want to pave part of the garden? Want to move a wall? Want to paint it all, or fit blinds? If you own it you can do all that. If you rent you have to ask permission which you might not get. Plus why spend money on somewhere you don't own?

It's a trade off.

I live in London, UK in a flat I rent for £950 pcm. This would cost me £379,000 to buy, at the very least as it's a relatively nice area.

I could scrape the deposit and get a £379,000 mortgage but the insurance, maintenance and other costs on top would result in zero disposable income.

Currently I have £1750 left over every month which is nothing but bags of freedom to do whatever I want.

If I was to drop dead on Monday, the last great event wouldn't be getting Magnet in to do my kitchen, painting the living room ceiling and sitting in all weekend eating Tesco Value food. It would be chilling next to Lake Geneva in Lausanne with my other half which is exactly what I'm doing.

Live life now before it's over.

Edit: This is based on the advice of my wife's grandparents who are just about hanging on at the age of 84 and 86 respectively. They had to cancel their cruise this year due to poor health and openly admit that they worked way too hard for a house. They have a nice £1m house in London and a pile of savings but it's worth nothing to them now because their health is gone. It's empty as the children have left and they realised the memories were more important than the bricks.

So, sod buying a house. I'll live an irresponsible yet fulfilling life now.

Re: Is it better to buy or rent?

#25
post #13

Does this take into account the risk of a housing market crash? For me, the biggest reason for renting rather than buying is to avoid putting all my bags in one basket; I wouldn't buy $500k worth of shares of one company, so spending $500k on a single house seems similarly risky.

I know this isn't true everywhere, but the last time I did a similar calculation, based on the historic rate of rents increase in my area, buying the house, then just walking away at the end of 30 years was cheaper than rent.

This is actually sometimes the case, though please double-check your analyses before committing to outliers or "betting the farm". Since it does happen and can work for some people / some places it certainly complicates the simplified dichotomy presented in the OP and this topic.

Re: Is it better to buy or rent?

#26
post #14

The money is certainly important. But buying is better than renting in many ways. Want to rip out your kitchen and have a new one? Want to pave part of the garden? Want to move a wall? Want to paint it all, or fit blinds? If you own it you can do all that. If you rent you have to ask permission which you might not get. Plus why spend money on somewhere you don't own?

Want to live somewhere else without making a life-altering financial transaction that could lower your net worth tens of thousands of dollars?

Re: Is it better to buy or rent?

#27
There is an important oversimplification that these formulas/programs/spreadsheets often make, and I see it happening here. Consider two alternatives where everything is the same except the amount of money used for the mortgage down payment. The formula assume that money not used for the down payment is invested at a certain rate of return. If the mortgage interest rate is greater than the investment return, then the formula always indicate that the largest down payment possible should be made and if the rate of return for investments is assumed to be greater than the mortgage interest rate then the smallest possible down payment should be made.

Its easiest to understand the problem with specific numbers. Assume a home buyer has $120,000 that could be put into a down payment, but that the minimum required is only $20,000. What should the buyer do? Assume that the investment rate of return is 5% and the mortgage rate is 4%. Investing the $100,000 instead of using it for the down payment is essentially borrowing $100,000 at 4% and investing it at 5%. All the formulas/worksheets/programs like this one and even professional investment advisors will end up showing that is better to put down the minimum down payment and investing the $100,000. This ignores the risk between alternatives. Putting the $100,000 into the down payment produces a guaranteed, riskless, return the buyer of 4% per year (by saving him or her the mortgage interest payments on the $100,000). The 5% potential return from investing the money isn't a fair comparison. The comparison needs to be made to a riskless investment (e.g. US Treasury Bills). Currently the riskless rate of return available to investors is approximately 0%. This means that in the current environment the correct alternative is to put the $100,000 extra into the down payment (absent any liquidity concerns).

One may say that they are willing to take some risks to obtain a higher rate of return. Modern Portfolio Theory has its detractors, but as far as home buyers are concerned, its implications are still apropos. Having one component of your overall portfolio earning the equivalent of a riskless 4% (by making the larger mortgage down payment) is likely to produce better aggregate returns (on the home and additional equities etc.) at whatever risk tolerance one designs for their overall finances.

I have no formal training in finance or investing so none of what I've described here should be interpreted as advice, instead it is intended to spur discussion.

Re: Is it better to buy or rent?

#28
post #14

The money is certainly important. But buying is better than renting in many ways. Want to rip out your kitchen and have a new one? Want to pave part of the garden? Want to move a wall? Want to paint it all, or fit blinds? If you own it you can do all that. If you rent you have to ask permission which you might not get. Plus why spend money on somewhere you don't own?

Want to live somewhere else without making a life-altering financial transaction that could lower your net worth tens of thousands of dollars?

Property will always increase over the long term. Unless you're moving every 6 months this isn't a good reason.

Of course selling your house and buying a new one will take a few months, so it does restrict your mobility in that way.

Re: Is it better to buy or rent?

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is that you are contractually constrained to invest into a long-term asset (the house) on a monthly basis. In principle people who rent are paying less each month and should on average do just as well if they invest that money elsewhere, but in practice they tend to spent the extra money. Once they reach retirement, they have fewer assets.

Maybe in US it is cheap to rent, but at least in Poland, if you can get a mortgage, your mortgage monthly payment is often much lower than the rent payment for the same property. Renting here is only good if you don't plan to stay for long or if you actually can't get a good mortgage, because your income is low. The more you earn, typically the better interest rate you can get with mortgage (mine is currently 1.8% to…

It depends a lot on where you live in the US. In big cities, I'm sure it's definitely cheaper to rent. In more rural areas it's often less obvious which is the cheaper option and it really comes down to preference. And sometimes in rural areas it's cheaper to just own, depending on the cost of the houe.
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