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Apple OS X El Capitan

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21–30 of 146 posts

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#21

Welp... it looks like OS X is about to discover tiling window management lite. ;)

Unfortunately seems heavily mouse based. I'll stick with Spectacle myself.

Spectacle was about the only way to make my multi-monitor OSX experience work. It was maddening. Nice to see them catch up to at least acknowledge that everyone doesn't like the messy overlapping windows look.

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#22
post #13
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably won't use it yourself. You'll use Unity or UT4 which uses Metal under the hood.

> You'll use Unity or UT4 which uses Metal under the hood. Why do I have to use those engines?

You don't have to, but they reduce development cost by reducing the impact of per-device differences such as those between various versions of OpenGL ES, various versions of OpenGL, various manufacturer-specific implementation quirks of OpenGL, D3D, the existing desktop below-OpenGL APIs and now, presumably, metal.

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#24
post #5

> Metal is coming to Mac, paving the way for new levels of realism and detail in games and other apps. I'm guessing this is yet another API like Mantle/Vulkan that is also seated comfortably in the Apple walled garden and increases the development costs: awesome!

And it's 40% faster! .... Of course they forgot to mention that OGL drivers on OS X were about 30% slower than OGL/DX drivers on Windows on the same hardware running same scene. So instead of updating their OpenGL 3D performance they just kept it back and now you're forced to use a proprietary walled garden API for full performance.

This kind of behaviour makes me really really sorry to be an Apple customer :/

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#25
post #22
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You'll use Unity or UT4 which uses Metal under the hood. Why do I have to use those engines?

You don't have to, but they reduce development cost by reducing the impact of per-device differences such as those between various versions of OpenGL ES, various versions of OpenGL, various manufacturer-specific implementation quirks of OpenGL, D3D, the existing desktop below-OpenGL APIs and now, presumably, metal.

I was being slightly sarcastic: the point is that there are people who enjoy doing both (and indie games are for the most part a work of love/enjoyment). If Mac drops OpenGL (or never adds Vulkan) there is a chance that someone simply won't bother making their engine+game work on Mac - meaning lost potential on the platform. Who's to say the next Minecraft (which is an engine+game) won't support Mac because it doesn't support Metal and instead went the Vulkan route?

Apple can port Metal, it makes sense: there are tons of mobile games that would pose immediate value for the platform; adding Vulkan into the mix (or even fixing their completely broken OpenGL implementation) would have been a much stronger message.

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#26
post #10

gotta love the adoption rate being percentage and not numbers. osx would show as a flat line...

Using numbers for adoption rate would make no sense at all. There would be no context for it. The comparison is how many installs are on the latest version. It would have to be X number out of Y number of installs in order to find out how many installs are running the same version. And then if you're doing X out of Y, you might as well normalize Y to 100, then you get a percent. If you're looking to see how many of y…

I think the point is, if Apple (or Google or whoever) would be the clear market leader, they'd probably show total count and be like "whoa, look, our last OS was the fastest growing from since beginning of time!!!!" (showing X units sold/year instead of percentage/months). And all fanboys would go "woohhooo, AppGooSoft is so awesome, everybody buys it!".

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#28
post #24
post #5

> Metal is coming to Mac, paving the way for new levels of realism and detail in games and other apps. I'm guessing this is yet another API like Mantle/Vulkan that is also seated comfortably in the Apple walled garden and increases the development costs: awesome!

And it's 40% faster! .... Of course they forgot to mention that OGL drivers on OS X were about 30% slower than OGL/DX drivers on Windows on the same hardware running same scene. So instead of updating their OpenGL 3D performance they just kept it back and now you're forced to use a proprietary walled garden API for full performance. This kind of behaviour makes me really really sorry to be an Apple customer :/

> This kind of behaviour makes me really really sorry to be > an Apple customer :/

Well, don't be then. I don't get this cry about walled gardens. Feel free to roam in the jungle if you don't like them.

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#29
When Apple switched from the big cats naming scheme to "places in California" I predicted (mostly to my adult children, who all have Apple computers): "How much ya wanna bet it's gonna be a cold day in hell when they name a build after someplace in SOUTHERN California?" If I'm wrong, I suppose the first build named after something in SoCal will be called "Joshua Tree" -- nice tie in with U2.

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#30
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most studios use middleware and there is zero support for OpenGL in game consoles anyway[0]. So it looks like Apple is saying goodbye to OpenGL, given that all their accelerated rendering has been moved over to Metal, at least from the keynote presentation. [0] No sane studio ever bothered with PSGL on the PS3, the only console ever supporting an OpenGL variant.

I think this benefits DirectX 12.

This benefits game engines in general. I fail to see why it would favour only DX 12.

Apple saved OpenGL from extinction when it was chosen as the iOS 3D API, as the API never had a foothold on game consoles.

Apparently now they are done with it and with no plans on adopting Vulkan.

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