Live data from Hacker News

Accepting payments is getting harder

medium.com

21–30 of 125 posts

Re: Accepting payments is getting harder

#21
post #10

Good. There's no love lost between me and companies that make significant money doing PCI assessments (they tend to be the bottom-feeding remora of the infosec economy), but the one criticism you could not level against the PCI certification program over the last 10 years is that it was too hard to get certified . Use Stripe. Move on.

What happens when the iframe allowance is removed, and not even using Stripe can save you from the credit card companies? This seems like a transparent plan to make PCI assessors more money.

[deleted]

Re: Accepting payments is getting harder

#22

Stripe plans to use the iFrame "loophole" to enable Stripe.js customers to qualify under SAQ A-EP as mentioned on their website[1]: > The new version of Stripe.js meets these criteria by performing all transmission of sensitive cardholder data within an iframe served off of a stripe.com domain controlled by Stripe. Can someone help me understand how this is practically any more secure than the way Stripe.js currently…

PCI DSS and SAQs are in the end written by lawyers. There are many weird things there that don't really make that much sense.

Unfortunately, in that space, you have to play by those rules...

Re: Accepting payments is getting harder

#23
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens when the iframe allowance is removed, and not even using Stripe can save you from the credit card companies? This seems like a transparent plan to make PCI assessors more money.

Woah. Precisely the reason that card networks and issuers have been so lax previously is that they want consumers and issuers to use their damn cards. Being painful to use for merchants and consumers is incompatible with that. Until now losses were small enough... Now, PCI assessment industry is such a profoundly small thing next to the losses and risk carried by issuers - let alone the sheer core business volumes at…

Wouldn't that happen by just making rules that led to people using third-party services, though? Why is it a requirement that you change users' passwords every 90 days (something which I outright don't want to do), or get audited once a year (which is a considerable expense for no actual feedback, other than running an automated tool)?

Re: Accepting payments is getting harder

#24

Stripe plans to use the iFrame "loophole" to enable Stripe.js customers to qualify under SAQ A-EP as mentioned on their website[1]: > The new version of Stripe.js meets these criteria by performing all transmission of sensitive cardholder data within an iframe served off of a stripe.com domain controlled by Stripe. Can someone help me understand how this is practically any more secure than the way Stripe.js currently…

I'm actually working on a blog post about this, basically the argument is whether or not you use Stripe.js and the invisible iframe and Stripe Checkout is that as soon as you have some malicious JS in your DOM all bets are off, and while stealing credit card info from Stripe Checkout may be harder than just doing $("#credit-card-number").value, its not /that/ much harder.

(As part of my blog post, I actually use some malicious js on the merchant site to steal card info from a Braintree iframe (the drop in))

Re: Accepting payments is getting harder

#25

> The worst offenders however are the requirements that some businesses simply cannot comply with unless they have some serious cash laying around. Examples of this are >> Quarterly external vulnerability scans must be performed by an Approved Scanning Vendor (ASV), approved by the Payment Card Industry Security Standards Council (PCI SSC). > and >> Is external penetration testing performed per the defined methodolog…

I'm sorry that's been your experience. What should have happened is a primarily manual penetration test, administered by security engineers who themselves used to be fully competent software developers. Any automated tooling should have had strict manual verification and should not have been the focus of the test. Furthermore, superfluous results should not have been submitted in the PDF report.

Strictly "policy" audits such as PCI compliance differ a bit, but in general they should still involve a technical deep dive into your product's infrastructure, conducted by consultants with expertise in multiple tech stacks and overall experience in a variety of frontend and backend frameworks.

The final deliverable ("PDF report") also should have been hand-written, and in language that conveys technical expertise, complete with recommended steps towards remediation of any issues.

My employer, Accuvant does this, as well as Matasano (more well known here on HN).

As for why it's so expensive...well, I bill out at about $2000 per day. It really comes down to a lot of what people like patio11 and tptacek like to talk about here regarding consulting:

1. This is highly specialized work, with a much smaller population of competent engineers than typical web developers (for example). As such, it naturally receives a higher fee for supply and demand. Now, some people abuse this and run scans like Nessus and call it a day. These are not real infosec firms, they are parasites.

2. More specifically, we ask for it and we receive it, and we do exceedingly well. If people keep paying us five figures a week to perform a penetration test, we're not going to stop asking for it or reduce our prices.

Re: Accepting payments is getting harder

#26
post #10

Good. There's no love lost between me and companies that make significant money doing PCI assessments (they tend to be the bottom-feeding remora of the infosec economy), but the one criticism you could not level against the PCI certification program over the last 10 years is that it was too hard to get certified . Use Stripe. Move on.

What happens when the iframe allowance is removed, and not even using Stripe can save you from the credit card companies? This seems like a transparent plan to make PCI assessors more money.

Judging from how proactive Stripe is being with respect to recent changes, they probably have a Plan B in case the iframe exception disappears. For example, they could provide a payment page hosted with them that you can customize (basically an enhanced version of Stripe Checkout), or even offer to iframe your webpage the other way around.

Re: Accepting payments is getting harder

#27
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens when the iframe allowance is removed, and not even using Stripe can save you from the credit card companies? This seems like a transparent plan to make PCI assessors more money.

Judging from how proactive Stripe is being with respect to recent changes, they probably have a Plan B in case the iframe exception disappears. For example, they could provide a payment page hosted with them that you can customize (basically an enhanced version of Stripe Checkout), or even offer to iframe your webpage the other way around.

Yep, knowing Stripe, I'm not that worried that they won't be able to figure something out. What does worry me is that they need to figure something out at all.

Re: Accepting payments is getting harder

#28
post #18

This is good. People are getting fed up with replacing their credit card every six months because some online retailer had a breach. You can outsource payment processing to Stripe, Paypal, Square, Yahoo Store, etc. There's no reason every web merchant should see credit card numbers. Stripe is in Visa's doghouse right now.[1] Their entry on the Visa Global Registry of Service Providers has turned yellow, with an expir…

Braintree too, Feb28, 2015

edit: actually I'm seeing Google there Jan 31, 2015 , so I wouldn't pay too much attention to this. Likely they fix up before anyways.

Re: Accepting payments is getting harder

#29
post #18

This is good. People are getting fed up with replacing their credit card every six months because some online retailer had a breach. You can outsource payment processing to Stripe, Paypal, Square, Yahoo Store, etc. There's no reason every web merchant should see credit card numbers. Stripe is in Visa's doghouse right now.[1] Their entry on the Visa Global Registry of Service Providers has turned yellow, with an expir…

[deleted]

Re: Accepting payments is getting harder

#30
post #19
post #18

This is good. People are getting fed up with replacing their credit card every six months because some online retailer had a breach. You can outsource payment processing to Stripe, Paypal, Square, Yahoo Store, etc. There's no reason every web merchant should see credit card numbers. Stripe is in Visa's doghouse right now.[1] Their entry on the Visa Global Registry of Service Providers has turned yellow, with an expir…

> There's no reason every web merchant should see credit card numbers. The heightened requirements are actually for when you are using services that _don't_ let the merchant see the CC number. Like the "old" Stripe.js.

Do elaborate ... And what is old/new stripe.js ?
Post reply on HN