This is a wonderful bit of news, but I fail to see how it will change anything.
The spymasters will cry "terrorism!" and Congress will either be bought or intimidated into submission. Again.
U.S. NSA domestic phone spying program illegal: appeals court
21–30 of 146 posts
Re: U.S. NSA domestic phone spying program illegal: appeals court
#22Pretty sure they are going to keep doing it anyway.
Re: U.S. NSA domestic phone spying program illegal: appeals court
#23Can somebody explain how a constitutional challenge could be dismissed under the pretext of "it was authorized by Congress"? Isn't the whole point of a constitutional challenge to address things illegal things authorized by the government?
The constitutional challenge was dismissed because it was found to be constitutional under existing jurisprudence. See discussion in the lower court's memorandum opinion and order starting on the bottom of page 38[1]. Smith v. Maryland, abridged, said that we have no privacy interest in the metadata sent to a third party in order to complete a call. In the words of 4th amendment jurisprudence, we don't have a reasona…
> In the words of 4th amendment jurisprudence, we don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy in items we voluntarily disclose to third parties.
I would hope that thinking on this evolves, to the point that we have a reasonable expectation that information we've voluntarily disclosed to a third party stays between us and that third party. Because that is exactly my personal expectation, notwithstanding my other expectation that it will be violated.
Re: U.S. NSA domestic phone spying program illegal: appeals court
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems to me the lawyers would attempt to throw noodles at the wall until something sticks. The "authorized by Congress" noodle stuck to the wall of the lower court. A higher court told them they needed to have cleaned their walls first. Whether the lower court should have accepted the "authorized by Congress" argument is another matter, but the reason might be that the judge agreed. Or maybe he didn't feel convinced…
Or, given the case at hand, they had some things on him he didn't want "leaked". Might sound paranoid, but that is one of the core reasons why such systems are so bad, right ?
Exactly right. And the fact that such tin-hat conversations are at all credible (reality or not) today is an indication that someone has fucked up, very badly and very existentially.
We just can't take seriously any statement made by spies, whether they're false or true. Even statements that are provably true have a good chance at being in front of a bad motive. They game others as their day job, after all.
Re: U.S. NSA domestic phone spying program illegal: appeals court
#25This is a wonderful bit of news, but I fail to see how it will change anything. The spymasters will cry "terrorism!" and Congress will either be bought or intimidated into submission. Again.
They don't even need to be bought or intimidated. Both sides see terrorism and other conflict with glee. Republicans can exploit fear of others and hatred to perpetuate themselves in office. Democrats can exploit fear and hatred of Republicans and the government to perpetuate themselves in office.
Re: U.S. NSA domestic phone spying program illegal: appeals court
#26Can somebody explain how a constitutional challenge could be dismissed under the pretext of "it was authorized by Congress"? Isn't the whole point of a constitutional challenge to address things illegal things authorized by the government?
There is a doctrine called "constitutional avoidance" - if a court can decide a case on grounds without reaching a constitutional question (particularly a close question), it ought to decide the case on the alternative grounds and avoid the constitutional question.
So, for example, a court might say: This action was improper because it was not authorized by Congress. That is all we need to decide. Because we made this decision, we don't need to reach the constitutional question. Of course, if Congress had authorized this action (or now does so), and this case is back before us, we will no longer be able to take that path. We may, at that time, decide that the congressionally-authorized action is unconstitutional. But because there is no need to do reach that decision at this time, we decline to do so.
Read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_avoidance
Re: U.S. NSA domestic phone spying program illegal: appeals court
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
Eh, cheer up. Sure, the intelligence agencies will do their best to lie and hide from Congress, but every time they do so, it is one step closer to the hammer coming down onto them and their funding being slashed.
Sorry to add to the downer chorus, but I think that would require a majority in both houses to exhibit some integrity and a desire to wield Congressional power. I don't see that happening. Obstructionism, pandering, lobbying and abdication of responsibility? Oh, we've got that in spades.
Not to be a double downer, I don't see the current president signing anything that would limit executive power so it would take 2/3rds of both houses to override a veto.
Re: U.S. NSA domestic phone spying program illegal: appeals court
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
Eh, cheer up. Sure, the intelligence agencies will do their best to lie and hide from Congress, but every time they do so, it is one step closer to the hammer coming down onto them and their funding being slashed.
I wouldn't be so optimistic. A bit of fearmongering here and there. Some idiots from the middle east (or wherever) spreading fear and terror... et viola: New justification for more funds.
I'm sure you heard that ISIS has suddenly appeared in the US coincidentally just a few days before the reauthorization of the worst parts of the "Patriot" act came due.
Re: U.S. NSA domestic phone spying program illegal: appeals court
#29Now it would be the right time to ask for a presidential pardon for Edward Snowden. Now that candidates are gearing up their campaign platforms, it would be a great vote winner both on the left and on the (libertarian) right. If you live in a "defining primary" state, please go and ask the candidates as soon as they show up.
Re: U.S. NSA domestic phone spying program illegal: appeals court
#30Key thoughts.
It is always important to remember that the Section 215 progam is not a significant authority under which the government conducts surveillance on US citizens. The metadata program is a little used program and the data is not co-mingled with the larger XKeyScore dataset. As a result, the IC does not fight as hard to protection Section 215 authority as it does more significant surveillance authorities.
Because the Section 215 authority is expiring, the IC has every opportunity via the Freedom Act to create stronger statutory authorities under the guise of reform. Straight expiration of the abuse 215 authority is the strongest reform message.