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FOAM: New JavaScript Framework by Google Engineers

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Re: FOAM: New JavaScript Framework by Google Engineers

#21

Oh boy, yet another JavaScript framework. Colored me unimpressed; angular, backbone, ember, angular 2.0, react, etc. I feel like they're just reinventing the same wheel with a different spin. I wish people would actually spend their time creating a really revolutionary "framework" instead, better yet a programming environment, which would redefine how we write web programs. I'm envisioning a way to create software, w…

> I'm envisioning a way to create software, where while having a conversation with another person, we could collaboratively draw some shapes on the screen, connect them, then my program comes to life, evolves, scales up, scales down, etc. I believe programming should not be an endeavor accessible only to those adept at manipulating text files.

There are many solutions (e.g. Simulink, GUI builders, the "connected nodes" approach of Blender) for that, but they only tackle specific areas. I don't see that changing, either. And they usually don't address anything except very small programs (say I find it very strange that programmers seem to think their trade has artificial entry barriers. For some reason, mathematicians are not concerned with that. It's already fairly easy to get started with programming. Languages have come a long way, there are good IDEs and you can get started using just freely available software.

Re: FOAM: New JavaScript Framework by Google Engineers

#23

Oh boy, yet another JavaScript framework. Colored me unimpressed; angular, backbone, ember, angular 2.0, react, etc. I feel like they're just reinventing the same wheel with a different spin. I wish people would actually spend their time creating a really revolutionary "framework" instead, better yet a programming environment, which would redefine how we write web programs. I'm envisioning a way to create software, w…

Completely agree with your first paragraph, but not the second.

There have been plenty of GUI programming tools, but most of them are pretty crap (the ones I have tried). MS Access had an OK query builder, but at the end of the day it didn't gain you anything over SQL. Java beans were touted as t a hot topic back when I was at university, but nothing ever came of them.

Syntax is rarely the difficult part in programming (except with CSS maybe). The way I see it, plugging parts as you describe together relies on a number of assumptions being made for you. The easier it is to plug things together, the less flexible each unit becomes. The difficult bit is choosing what assumptions are appropriate.

Re: FOAM: New JavaScript Framework by Google Engineers

#25
post #11

Five clicks in and I'm still not sure what it really is/does...

This presentation might help a bit: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1KQkRJOiEBDktgFSa3qle...

There is so much stuff in the source tree - including what looks like a complete UI layer - that I'm having a hard time grokking it from that direction.

Phrases like "can be used to generate code for any language or platform" and "FOAM is “written in itself”" make me want to understand what's going on first and how it solves whatever problems it sets out to solve rather than trashing it out of hand based on initial aesthetic impressions.

Re: FOAM: New JavaScript Framework by Google Engineers

#27
post #15

I'm not sure this framework is endorsed by Google. I can't find "by Google" on the home page nor about page.

https://github.com/foam-framework/foam/blob/master/core/Boot...

Curiouser: https://github.com/foam-framework/foam/blob/b75af78303f15826...

Re: FOAM: New JavaScript Framework by Google Engineers

#28

Oh boy, yet another JavaScript framework. Colored me unimpressed; angular, backbone, ember, angular 2.0, react, etc. I feel like they're just reinventing the same wheel with a different spin. I wish people would actually spend their time creating a really revolutionary "framework" instead, better yet a programming environment, which would redefine how we write web programs. I'm envisioning a way to create software, w…

React is pretty revolutionary. It turns rendering code into a simple pure function, which is a necessary step for where you want to end up.

Rendering code is easy to express as pure functions...that is mostly how OpenGL and DirectX work, after all. React doesn't help very much with the state of your application (nor is it meant to). That being said, being able to treat the DOM as something to be rendered efficiently in immediate mode is quite useful.

Re: FOAM: New JavaScript Framework by Google Engineers

#30

Oh boy, yet another JavaScript framework. Colored me unimpressed; angular, backbone, ember, angular 2.0, react, etc. I feel like they're just reinventing the same wheel with a different spin. I wish people would actually spend their time creating a really revolutionary "framework" instead, better yet a programming environment, which would redefine how we write web programs. I'm envisioning a way to create software, w…

Oh boy, another complaint about having a diversity of tools available.

You're not really contributing much here, and it's a frustrating attitude to see. We're still in the relatively early days of building the kind of apps that these frameworks are targeted at; the idea that any time spent on incremental improvement or experimentation is a waste, and instead we should; 'redefine how we write web programs' is just nonsense. It's extremely rare that things evolve in that fashion.

Yes, programming probably should be accessible to everyone. That's a gigantic, fuzzy challenge that's totally orthogonal to spending time developing tools that are useful in the immediate present.

And it's not like it's never been tried before. What about Hypercard, or more recently Scratch? Or Swift's playgrounds? All of these are looking at ways to make development more visual and accessible.

Your time would be much better spent contributing to those efforts than rubbishing the attempts of other people to deal with other problems.

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