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Waterloo Co-op: A Blessing and a Curse

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Re: Waterloo Co-op: A Blessing and a Curse

#21

Post by lfuller »

ryanobjc wrote: post #2

I did software coop at UBC, and I can say without a doubt that the coop model is purely an invention of a highly conservative business culture. For those with the skills and the desire, I say skip it. The loss of community with the rest of your class is huge, and the extra time is not worth the money compared to a real post-graduation career. Additionally, most post-college hiring here in the Bay Area, and elsewhere,…

I disagree. I'd actually argue that I learned a lot more in my coop placements than I did in many of my classes. Maybe the UBC coop experience is different? The companies hiring Waterloo coops are usually top notch and include well known Silicon Valley companies like Facebook, Google, Apple, Stripe, Square, Twitter, etc.

Re: Waterloo Co-op: A Blessing and a Curse

#22

Post by ori_b »

kapin wrote: post #18
Permit wrote: post #15

A recent Waterloo grad myself, this goes against what I've heard from my peer group. (Most consider it to be a blessing alone) I also think many of the downsides listed in this article have little to do with co-op. Here's a summary of my pros and cons. Pros: - Work experience (2 years) - Travel (Within Canada, the US and even Europe if you're up for it) - Money. Far more than we probably deserved at that age. - Ease…

I think you've taken my words at being solely towards co-op, not a co-op program itself. Deadlines, school, and stress are part of being in a co-op program. Having a stressful work term, that is when you are supposed to be on break from school, is part of being in a co-op program. It's hard, some handle it better than others, but it's naive to say that the downsides are trivial and have little to do with being in a c…

> I think you've taken my words at being solely towards co-op, not a co-op program itself. Deadlines, school, and stress are part of being in a co-op program.

Deadlines, school, and stress are part of being in a program. Co-op or not.

Re: Waterloo Co-op: A Blessing and a Curse

#23

Post by rll »

dblohm7 wrote: post #20
rll wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loss of community with the rest of your class? At Waterloo co-op in engineering is not optional. Your entire class is on the same 4-month school-workterm-school schedule.

Not in other faculties, though. The BMath/CS program for example.

The article is about Waterloo engineering co-op though.

Re: Waterloo Co-op: A Blessing and a Curse

#24

Post by mlex »

dblohm7 wrote: post #20
rll wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loss of community with the rest of your class? At Waterloo co-op in engineering is not optional. Your entire class is on the same 4-month school-workterm-school schedule.

Not in other faculties, though. The BMath/CS program for example.

You're close enough to being "on-stream" with at least half of your starting class. The bulk of your co-op schedule will be alternating between 4-month school and work terms, and you'll generally align close to the engineering "8-stream" or "4-stream" schedules, with some 8-month terms here and there.

Re: Waterloo Co-op: A Blessing and a Curse

#25

Post by parasubvert »

guardiangod wrote: post #19
ryanobjc wrote: post #2

I did software coop at UBC, and I can say without a doubt that the coop model is purely an invention of a highly conservative business culture. For those with the skills and the desire, I say skip it. The loss of community with the rest of your class is huge, and the extra time is not worth the money compared to a real post-graduation career. Additionally, most post-college hiring here in the Bay Area, and elsewhere,…

I too am from UBC and did 6 terms of coop...in Waterloo (guess which company) . From what I observe, their coop model is completely different from UBC's. The 2 are completely different in nature. From speaking to Waterloo students, it is obvious to me that the point of coop is to cram as much real life experience into the students in as little time as possible. Note that I say real life experience, not work experienc…

"no coop supervisors I talked to really expect U of W coop students to be very useful (at least not that useful with only 4 months worth of work term!"

Hmm, having been a Waterloo co-op (97-01), we did some very useful things in those four months.

I rebuilt the backend content management & outbound marketing system for a major Canadian brokerage in 3 of those 4 months. I worked on a major features of a popular HTML editor in another term. One other term about 5 co-ops built a touch kiosk system (and software) for music stores that would burn custom CD's. I know a friend that worked on Wall Street building a market data feed for a major brokerage's fixed income system. This was in various locations - SF, Toronto, NYC.

I know of more than a few startups that were staffed at least half with Waterloo co-ops over the past couple of decades. Productivity would dip every 4 months but it was a remarkably effective way to get rotating technical talent in for cheap.

Everyone's experience differs of course, there are plenty of b.s. co-op jobs, but I would bet there are many companies still taking advantage of the talent/cost advantage.

Re: Waterloo Co-op: A Blessing and a Curse

#27

Post by parasubvert »

Former Waterloo CS co-op (96-01) here.

I found that school kicked your ass hard, and work was relatively a break. I got very good at Quake GL, Quake 2, and Unreal Tournament on work terms. When I was at startups we worked long hours, but we also goofed off a lot. At IT shops, life was 9-5.

I understand the tiredness of working an 8 hour day and wanting to do nothing afterwards, but I don't think that's unique co-op, that's just learning how to work an 8+ hour shift. Took a few years to get used to that - I fell asleep at work some afternoons!.. your body needs time to adjust to the new pattern, and you need to learn to structure your meals to fit your needs (eg. breakfast might be mandatory or not, at lunch don't eat foods that put you to sleep at 3pm, carbs for some, protein for others, get some exercise in which actually gives you more end of day energy).

What I would recommend is to actually take a break if you need to, like if you're losing your grip. I.e. take a term or two off, or do an extended work term. You'll be out of sync with your school friends, but if they're you're friends, they'll be in touch. I stretched a 4 month work term into an 8 month term once without any problems - just switched streams.

Eventually I dropped out and didn't finish my degree to work on Wall Street, but that's another story.

Re: Waterloo Co-op: A Blessing and a Curse

#28

Post by dgrant »

Here's where my situation might be a bit different then this guy's. I lived in Vancouver with my parents while going to school at UBC which makes things a lot easier. Family time was most nights for dinner, unless I was at school late. On weekends I was able hang out with my family and friends. This was true during school and co-op. My mom and dad made dinner every night and often threw my laundry in with theirs. I didn't have to do grocery shopping or any of that crap. I did do one co-op away from home (in Ottawa) and it was awesome and I was lucky to have lots of Waterloo students that I met and hung out with. :-) I also did 2 years at Waterloo for a Masters so I know what going to school away from home is like. Like he said, it's good and bad.

In Ontario, it's quite common for kids to be living away from home. That's at least true for almost all the kids at Western Ontario and Waterloo since those towns don't have the population to support the school by locals alone.

So I'm wondering how much of this guy's experience has to do with him being away from his childhood "home"? I wonder how he'd feel going to school at UoT and living at home and doing is co-op terms somewhere else? It depends on your parents I guess...

(I'm old now, so I can call 18-22 year old university students "kids")

Re: Waterloo Co-op: A Blessing and a Curse

#29

Post by eddotman »

ipp wrote: post #14
natdempk wrote: post #3

4 months seems a bit short for this continuous cycle. I go to Northeastern University and they do 6 month cycles of work/school. They also start off with a year and a half to two years of classes on a traditional schedule when you first enroll in college. This seems less relentless than the 4 month schedule described at Waterloo.

At Guelph, we do two full years of academics and a summer off before any co-op work term (so we have one less work term overall), and have two 8-month work terms and a 4-month as part of our schedule[1]. I think that's a much more workable schedule, and I think Waterloo even has a similar scheduling option in terms of term duration (at least for CS) as I've worked with a student from there for the same 8-months. As l…

Another Gryphon! I think you might be the first I've seen on HN. A few of my friends did Nanoscience co-op and I've pretty much only heard good things (I did the non co-op stream though since I didn't want to take the extra year to finish).

Re: Waterloo Co-op: A Blessing and a Curse

#30

Post by kapin »

Want to add some footnotes, comments, or whatever you want to call them.

1. I wrote this about the program in general, not about co-op terms or internships.

2. I used "curse" in the title because well, it fits in a writing sense (contrasts). Downsides, cons, whatever it is all the same.

3. I understand that real life is working 8 hour days, but at the same time it isn't surrounded by constantly moving and school.

4. Co-op is amazing. As I said I wouldn't trade it for anything, but you have no stability in life. When working full time you aren't moving your life every 4 months. Moving is hard enough as is.

Take my words as you want. This is my experience and how I've felt 4 years in and nothing more. Nothing in life comes without its warts and downsides (or curses if you may).

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