Three Types of Harmful Hackathons • Hacker News Board

Re: Three Types of Harmful Hackathons

#21

Post by jasonlotito » Tue, Apr 14, 2015, 6:23 PM UTC

mkremer90 wrote: post #2

Last Startup Weekend I went to had 7 devs out of 110 people. Definitely an issue. EDIT: All but one of the 11 teams were tech/programming required startups guys. I'm not talking about "Startup Weekend" as a whole, I'm talking about my experience at the event I went to.

Startup Weekends are not hackathons though.

Edit: Reading through these comments, it surprises me to see that so many people think of Startup Weekend first when they see hackathon. Startup Weekend takes on the format of a traditional hackathon, and shares many elements, but it's not a hackathon. Another commenter hit the nail on the head when they called it a business-a-thon. It just so happens that the culture surrounding it tends to use a lot of tech.

But please, don't equate Startup Weekends with hackathons. They aren't. And that's fine. They are what they are. Confusing them with hackathons however will lead to disappointment.

Re: Three Types of Harmful Hackathons

#22

Post by exelius » Tue, Apr 14, 2015, 6:24 PM UTC

joshstrange wrote: post #12

I've done Startup Weekend once before and it felt like how the "The Business-A-Thon" was described. My friends and I did not know this would be the case going in and spent all of our time pumping out an MVP (which worked!) while the teams that won largely didn't have ANY code to show for their time. It was all slides and marketing talk. The winner DID have code but it was a It was a pretty big letdown and I haven't b…

So team up with a business / marketing person next time. They can build slides and do market research while you write code. I've judged a few hackathons before, and I've seen teams like yours lose because your MVP doesn't actually serve a market need. The market need doesn't even need to be profitable; but you need to define and communicate the problem your product solves. Many talented engineers can't do that.

This is how the real world works: the business side of things is often more important than the technical implementation. If you fuck up the business side of things and end up making the wrong product, it doesn't matter how clean or well-implemented it is. But if you have the right product-market fit and a good business process around improving it, you can become incredibly successful even if your product is written in PHP (Facebook anyone?)

Re: Three Types of Harmful Hackathons

#23

Post by vosper » Tue, Apr 14, 2015, 6:28 PM UTC

I am a software engineer in the Bay Area. Of my friends, few are engineers whom I can geek-out or talk shop with. Hackathons seemed like a potentially good way to do it, but this article highlights the reasons I haven't been attending them: I just want to meet some people, hack on something fun, and maybe make some friends. I don't want to start a business, and I don't care about winning a prize. I don't really want to stay up all night, either - I have a wife, and other things to do.

I thought maybe Weekend Hacker would be fun, but that seems to be full of people looking for help with their startup idea. Most of them aren't engineers. Most of the Meetups I've been to (or hosted) are full of people trying to get me interested in their startup, or recruit me. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't see myself having a beer on the weekend with any of those folks.

So, how do people do it? It's kinda happening slowly over time, through friends and partners of friends, but I wouldn't know how to actively speed it up.

Re: Three Types of Harmful Hackathons

#24

Post by vishaldpatel » Tue, Apr 14, 2015, 6:32 PM UTC

peregrine wrote: post #13

vishaldpatel wrote: post #8

Running a Hackathon costs money. We can have a hackathon where: - The costs are split up by the number of participants. - A bunch of teams participate. - Everyone builds whatever they want, and they own it. - There can be multiple show-and-tells, to allow teams to ask / answer questions, get to know each-other, and iterate. - Everyone walks away having made some wonderful new friends, having learned a thing or two, a…

A Hackathon cost less money than you'd think. Typically for a day long event you can rent the place, get 3 meals, drinks and snacks including time spent for 40-50 people for about $2k. Which for a business isn't really all that much. Disclaimer I help organize the described at the bottom of the article.

Absolutely - the low cost per participant makes hackathons a great channel. $2k paid for by a single entity isn't insignificant. Your hackathons probably offer more to participants than others.

Re: Three Types of Harmful Hackathons

#25

Post by theyCallMeSwift » Tue, Apr 14, 2015, 6:34 PM UTC

The single biggest indicator of the quality of a hackathon is who is organizing it. I've seen countless events where the people putting on the event are doing it for selfish or greedy reasons, and 9 times out of 10 those events look like the 3 kinds the author is describing [1].

That said, there are tons of _good_ hackathons out there that actually do have the developers interests in mind. Specifically, I'd point to all the amazing things that are happening in the student space [2].

Bottom Line: Figure out who's organizing an event and use that as gauge to determine if it's worth your time.

[1] http://theycallmeswift.com/2013/10/25/dont-throw-that-hackat... [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/12/education/edlife/the-hacka...

Re: Three Types of Harmful Hackathons

#26

Post by joshstrange » Tue, Apr 14, 2015, 6:34 PM UTC

exelius wrote: post #22

joshstrange wrote: post #12

I've done Startup Weekend once before and it felt like how the "The Business-A-Thon" was described. My friends and I did not know this would be the case going in and spent all of our time pumping out an MVP (which worked!) while the teams that won largely didn't have ANY code to show for their time. It was all slides and marketing talk. The winner DID have code but it was a It was a pretty big letdown and I haven't b…

So team up with a business / marketing person next time. They can build slides and do market research while you write code. I've judged a few hackathons before, and I've seen teams like yours lose because your MVP doesn't actually serve a market need. The market need doesn't even need to be profitable; but you need to define and communicate the problem your product solves. Many talented engineers can't do that. This…

Oh, if I ever do SW again this is what I will do. I didn't mean to come across as sour grapes just sharing my experience and how SW fell short of my incorrect expectations.

Re: Three Types of Harmful Hackathons

#27

Post by joshstrange » Tue, Apr 14, 2015, 6:37 PM UTC

jasonlotito wrote: post #20

joshstrange wrote: post #12

I've done Startup Weekend once before and it felt like how the "The Business-A-Thon" was described. My friends and I did not know this would be the case going in and spent all of our time pumping out an MVP (which worked!) while the teams that won largely didn't have ANY code to show for their time. It was all slides and marketing talk. The winner DID have code but it was a It was a pretty big letdown and I haven't b…

> I've done Startup Weekend once before and it felt like how the "The Business-A-Thon" was described. To be fair, SW is meant to be a "Business-A-Thon" and not a hackathon in the traditional sense. This is spelled out in many places, and they make it clear up front that the business plan is key. > I also understand that maybe SW is not aimed at being a hackathon but I just wish they could have given more weight to so…

> To be fair, SW is meant to be a "Business-A-Thon" and not a hackathon in the traditional sense. This is spelled out in many places, and they make it clear up front that the business plan is key.

I understand this now, I decided to do SW at the last minute and hadn't done my research. See my edit above, I see this as my fault for not researching more what I was getting into not SW failure to meet my made up requirements to be an enjoyable experience for me.

Re: Three Types of Harmful Hackathons

#28

Post by alwold » Tue, Apr 14, 2015, 6:39 PM UTC

shampine wrote: post #18

joshstrange wrote: post #12

I've done Startup Weekend once before and it felt like how the "The Business-A-Thon" was described. My friends and I did not know this would be the case going in and spent all of our time pumping out an MVP (which worked!) while the teams that won largely didn't have ANY code to show for their time. It was all slides and marketing talk. The winner DID have code but it was a It was a pretty big letdown and I haven't b…

I haven't been to a SW in about 3 years. But the last ones I went to were all people who brought their existing fledgling business they were trying to get started. Did who knows what for the weekend. Then just pitched it on demo day. That was maybe 60% of the groups that participated. Really a big let down.

Bringing an existing business you've been working on is against the rules. That should have been enforced by whoever was facilitating.

If the rules are well explained and enforced, and you keep an open mind, startup weekend can be pretty cool. If your idea is bad, it will get eliminated right away, and you have to be ready for that. It's also best to team up with people you don't know, and you might meet one or two people that you'll end up becoming friends with.

Re: Three Types of Harmful Hackathons

#29

Post by jasonlotito » Tue, Apr 14, 2015, 6:42 PM UTC

joshstrange wrote: post #27

jasonlotito wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've done Startup Weekend once before and it felt like how the "The Business-A-Thon" was described. To be fair, SW is meant to be a "Business-A-Thon" and not a hackathon in the traditional sense. This is spelled out in many places, and they make it clear up front that the business plan is key. > I also understand that maybe SW is not aimed at being a hackathon but I just wish they could have given more weight to so…

> To be fair, SW is meant to be a "Business-A-Thon" and not a hackathon in the traditional sense. This is spelled out in many places, and they make it clear up front that the business plan is key. I understand this now, I decided to do SW at the last minute and hadn't done my research. See my edit above, I see this as my fault for not researching more what I was getting into not SW failure to meet my made up requirem…

Well, in reading these comments, it seems you aren't the only one that confuses SW with hackathon. Maybe it's the people I know locally and how they make sure to differentiate their SW and their hackathon, and how they are distinctly different. Maybe other locations just sort of stress a greater emphasis on hacking than the business side.

Regardless, it doesn't seem like you are alone. =)

Re: Three Types of Harmful Hackathons

#30

Post by sayangel » Tue, Apr 14, 2015, 6:42 PM UTC

I really think it depends on what you want to get out of a hackathon. At the end of the day you get out what you put in.

After graduating from college I spent some time going to hackathons, some of which were of the type you described. But I didn't care because I just wanted to go somewhere where I could hone my ability to think fast and ship. I got to do just that while also meeting awesome dev evangelists, eating free food, and occasionally going home with some prizes.

I also don't think the following is necessarily the right thing to do:

"Restrict to those who are there to code, design, or build something, not to write a business plan"

especially if the intent is to create "better builders, better collaborators, and better teachers."

Learning to work with the MBA type that a lot of people vilify can be a valuable skill. I think the ability to dilute business speak into features you can program or being able to communicate your complex programming ideas to someone less experienced are super valuable. And that's where I've seen a lot of hackathon pitches fall apart. Someone creates something so technical and awesome, but can't break it down into something that non-technical people or new programmers can understand. And that sucks, but being able to do so is a necessary communication skill.

I also think hackathons are a great place to find future co-founders. Maybe that's another programmer, but maybe it's someone who can help you sell your product and has a more developed business sense. Again, it all depends on why you're at the hackathon in the first place.