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Dropbox (YC S07) looking for Android Developer

dropbox.theresumator.com

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Re: Dropbox (YC S07) looking for Android Developer

#21

Post by jpeterson »

sown wrote: post #4

>* Bachelor's degree in Computer Science from a top-tier institution. I always hated this requirement. I'm sorry if I don't have the right pedigree to satisfy people like this. I'm sorry I didn't go to the "right" school, wasn't born into the right family or just a failure in their eyes.

Agreed. This requirement is just plain dumb, and bitterly disappointing given how much I've praised Dropbox and their product in the past. I won't be doing that anymore.

I didn't go to a "top-tier" institution, for reasons I'd rather not discuss here. I have worked with a few graduates of these kind of schools, and I can say that their coding and problem-solving abilities were not any greater than my own and others who didn't have such prestigious names on their diplomas. In my experience it makes no indication whatsoever. In fact, I generally ignore the specific undergraduate school when I look at a resume.

This is simply a statement of extreme and irrational elitism, and it stinks.

Re: Dropbox (YC S07) looking for Android Developer

#22

Post by tsally »

hyperbovine wrote: post #20
sown wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing that everyone is equal. What I am saying is that it is almost but not quite discrimination. I can't control with total fidelity what school I get in no matter how good a student I might be -- ie, if I'm good enough to go to MIT I can go to MIT. They can't let in anyone who is good enough to go to MIT because there is only so much space. And besides, I don't have the money to go there nor did I have th…

They can't let in anyone who is good enough to go to MIT because there is only so much space. Exactly. You hit the nail on the head--consequently, "good enough" doesn't cut it to get into MIT. You have to be the best of the best. Which means, if you're looking to hire the best of the best, you look for people who went to MIT. As you also rightly point out, this is not discrimination because clearly they'd be willing…

You have to be the best of the best.

Not quite. You have to be the diverse of the best (if I may mutilate English to make my point). Horror stories come out every year of the kid with perfect test scores and GPA who gets rejected from [insert prestigious school here]. It's not enough (and rightly so) to be the best of the best. You've got to have something different. Some distinguishing factors that come to mind are:

* Socio-economic background

* Athletic and musical ability

* Ethnicity and gender

* Unusual, proven talent in some rare area

Re: Dropbox (YC S07) looking for Android Developer

#23

Post by gcheong »

amichail wrote: post #11
nixme wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In short: no, not everyone is equally skilled, but you're going to miss a lot of gems if you only hire from MIT's peer institutions. You are correct, but that doesn't matter. Hiring filters are intentionally excessively restrictive because a bad hire is much worse than losing out on a few good individuals. Remember that in our industry (and probably others), even a full-day interview tells you very little about a can…

Is this a form of discrimination? Is it legal?

It is a legal form of discrimination.

Re: Dropbox (YC S07) looking for Android Developer

#24

Post by nixme »

amichail wrote: post #11
nixme wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In short: no, not everyone is equally skilled, but you're going to miss a lot of gems if you only hire from MIT's peer institutions. You are correct, but that doesn't matter. Hiring filters are intentionally excessively restrictive because a bad hire is much worse than losing out on a few good individuals. Remember that in our industry (and probably others), even a full-day interview tells you very little about a can…

Is this a form of discrimination? Is it legal?

Is this a form of discrimination?

It is a form of exclusion based on past education and experience. Are you implying that it is unethical to do so? I say no. Past performance is the best predictor of future performance. Getting accepted into and performing well at a top-tier university is past performance. This will undoubtedly exclude many great candidates. But the reality of hiring is that there's always a time constraint and bad hires are incredibly disastrous to an organization.

Is it legal?

In the United States, it is certainly legal to judge candidates on their education and experience. I'd also wager it's legal just about everywhere. Otherwise, as tsally said, employers would be forced to interview just about anyone that applies for a position.

Re: Dropbox (YC S07) looking for Android Developer

#25

Post by [deleted] »

sown wrote: post #4

>* Bachelor's degree in Computer Science from a top-tier institution. I always hated this requirement. I'm sorry if I don't have the right pedigree to satisfy people like this. I'm sorry I didn't go to the "right" school, wasn't born into the right family or just a failure in their eyes.

[deleted]

Re: Dropbox (YC S07) looking for Android Developer

#26

Post by idoh »

jpeterson wrote: post #21
sown wrote: post #4

>* Bachelor's degree in Computer Science from a top-tier institution. I always hated this requirement. I'm sorry if I don't have the right pedigree to satisfy people like this. I'm sorry I didn't go to the "right" school, wasn't born into the right family or just a failure in their eyes.

Agreed. This requirement is just plain dumb, and bitterly disappointing given how much I've praised Dropbox and their product in the past. I won't be doing that anymore. I didn't go to a "top-tier" institution, for reasons I'd rather not discuss here. I have worked with a few graduates of these kind of schools, and I can say that their coding and problem-solving abilities were not any greater than my own and others w…

Often these requirements aren't literal. If you've got a background that is otherwise a good fit they might give you a look anyway.

Re: Dropbox (YC S07) looking for Android Developer

#27

Post by sown »

hyperbovine wrote: post #20
sown wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing that everyone is equal. What I am saying is that it is almost but not quite discrimination. I can't control with total fidelity what school I get in no matter how good a student I might be -- ie, if I'm good enough to go to MIT I can go to MIT. They can't let in anyone who is good enough to go to MIT because there is only so much space. And besides, I don't have the money to go there nor did I have th…

They can't let in anyone who is good enough to go to MIT because there is only so much space. Exactly. You hit the nail on the head--consequently, "good enough" doesn't cut it to get into MIT. You have to be the best of the best. Which means, if you're looking to hire the best of the best, you look for people who went to MIT. As you also rightly point out, this is not discrimination because clearly they'd be willing…

No I think you mis understood me. Being best-of-best isn't good enough, either. They've got to throw in some other random elements to make it look...I dunno, fair, different, genuine?

I just fail to see how being an expert viola player or a state ping pong ball champ or a is going to help someone write superior software or conduct excellent science.

And I mean in a real, verifiable way, not some unconvincing, weak collection of anecdotes.

Of course, I'm not saying I can write super-superior software.

Re: Dropbox (YC S07) looking for Android Developer

#28

Post by gcheong »

sown wrote: post #15
huangm wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your problem is that you're taking job postings personally. Dropbox isn't posting a job posting to make an objective statement about what makes someone good. They're posting it to fill a position in their company. Your bachelors degree institution also isn't just a pedigree. You can't perpetually argue that 'everyone is equal'. People aren't equal, and where you went to school is a useful signal. Beyond all this, the…

I'm not arguing that everyone is equal. What I am saying is that it is almost but not quite discrimination. I can't control with total fidelity what school I get in no matter how good a student I might be -- ie, if I'm good enough to go to MIT I can go to MIT. They can't let in anyone who is good enough to go to MIT because there is only so much space. And besides, I don't have the money to go there nor did I have th…

"but they don't have to say it out-loud."

Actually it's better if they do, that way it wastes less of your time if you know up front that you don't have a chance because of your lack of pedigree as you say. I don't like it either, but I would rather know up front.

Re: Dropbox (YC S07) looking for Android Developer

#29

Post by gcheong »

sown wrote: post #4

>* Bachelor's degree in Computer Science from a top-tier institution. I always hated this requirement. I'm sorry if I don't have the right pedigree to satisfy people like this. I'm sorry I didn't go to the "right" school, wasn't born into the right family or just a failure in their eyes.

Maybe it's because they're looking for an employee and not another co-founder?

http://steveblank.com/2009/04/07/the-good-student/

Re: Dropbox (YC S07) looking for Android Developer

#30

Post by gcheong »

idoh wrote: post #26
jpeterson wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. This requirement is just plain dumb, and bitterly disappointing given how much I've praised Dropbox and their product in the past. I won't be doing that anymore. I didn't go to a "top-tier" institution, for reasons I'd rather not discuss here. I have worked with a few graduates of these kind of schools, and I can say that their coding and problem-solving abilities were not any greater than my own and others w…

Often these requirements aren't literal. If you've got a background that is otherwise a good fit they might give you a look anyway.

I don't know if it's useful but I noticed that in two out of their four job postings (Senior Systems Engineer and Web Engineer) the "top-tier" degree requirement is not listed.
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