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American students head to Germany for free college

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Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#21
post #2

How could this possibly make sense to German taxpayers?

I would gladly pay more taxes if it meant attracting intellectual and ambitious (and you have to be both to explore this kind of opportunity — also, I suspect that you have to pass some exams, right?) people from other countries.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#22
post #6
post #2

How could this possibly make sense to German taxpayers?

From the article: >Germany wants these international students here, even though their taxpayers foot the bill. >“Germany is not a country that's growing,” Malone says. “Its population is not growing. They need people, they need immigrants. They want to be a migration country.” >Think about it this way: it’s a global game of collecting talent. All of these students are the trading cards, and the collectors are countri…

I completely get the premise of drawing talent. I don't agree with the concerns over population numbers itself. You see this fear from Japan, Germany, and much of Europe.

Entering into an age that will be dominated by robotics, greater general automation, artificial intelligence, etc., having more people across the board will not be a net benefit. Germany is worrying about this at exactly the wrong time.

Germany has vastly expanded their economy since 1970, while adding zero additional people. They'll be able to do exactly the same thing over the next 40 years by leveraging the incredible productivity gains that are inbound right now. No population growth is necessary or desirable; if Germany holds its population steady, and increases economic output through greater productivity, they'll greatly improve the odds that the median standard of living will increase in line.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#23
post #18
post #2

How could this possibly make sense to German taxpayers?

Germans are not so obsessed about not paying taxes like e.g. Americans or Swiss. Nobody likes to pay taxes and everybody complains about the high taxes. But I think (actually hope!) that Germans understand (if only unconsciously) that happiness is much more depending on getting old without fear of poverty, knowing to be treated if ill, being able to go safely outside anytime anywhere, not dropping out of society if b…

Also, you could argue that it is a good investment to have high educated foreigners receive their education in your country: it's like extending your business network on a nation-wide level.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#24
Education in Europe is not free. You pay with your qualifications. If your university grades are not good enough, you go out fast.

I studied engineering in Europe. When I went to Boston or London to work it was like I was the boss or something because I was much better prepared than Americans or British.

But Americans have much better job opportunities that make them better than Europeans after working some time in any field.

The world is controlled by the petrodollar and Americans enjoy lots of benefits as a result.

Europe is old and taking risks is so hard here. In Asia it is even harder.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#25
post #2

How could this possibly make sense to German taxpayers?

The mindset here is different.

1. We have a 20% sales tax, income tax that is usually somewhere between 35%-45%... car taxes, highest energy costs in the world... just taxes everywhere.

2. The overall mindset here is much less libertarian and much more "let the Goverment handle it".

3. Smart brains are needed for the local economy to stay competitive.

4. Another thing to keep in mind: the actual cost for a student isn't really that much money. There are no million dollar sports teams, luxury gyms, technical equipment usually just isn't on the same level...

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#26
post #2

How could this possibly make sense to German taxpayers?

Well consider the alternative: only rich people could get a higher education otherwise. IIRC this is what happens in the US too (parents having to save for their kids' college education, assuming they actually have money left after paying the bills), which leads to reduced mobility (the poor stay poor)

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#28
I am on a temporary work assignment in Germany (2 years). I would come back in a minute if I wanted to further my education. Its a great country, safe, modern, and residents (permanent or not) get a lot of support from the government. Free university is for the German people, but they extend it to foreigners because Germany needs people and they hope they stay. I've learned a lot in Germany I will take back with me an apply to my work and everyday life (focus, directness, efficiency, attention to detail, basing decisions on first principles). I imagine getting an education here would reflect these principles and be of very high quality. Most German engineers I interact with our exceptional. Germany has an export to import ratio of ~1.2 meaning for every euro they spend, they earn 1.20 euros. They can afford this. The US is less than 1 (perhaps 0.8 or something) and Canada (my home) is about 1 mostly because we have so many natural resources. The benefits one gets in the US and Canada pale in comparison to Germany, it is embarrassing. The US and Canada need to push their export to import ratios higher through innovation and efficiency improvements (real economic growth, not like artificial economic growth based on low interests, real estate speculation, and the financial/banking worlds investment/money magic tricks) in order to be able to afford the benefits a German resident gets.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#29
post #20
post #2

How could this possibly make sense to German taxpayers?

The question is how could that expensive US education could possibly make sense for americans? In Europe,in most countries, education is virtually free, just look at the cost of law school or med school in France or Belgium for instance. It's what $500 dollars a year at most? Of course there are plenty of private schools in Europe, but even these are usually half the cost of American ones. I graduated in computer sci…

Public university used to be cheap.

In the 1960's, tuition & fees at a UC school was less than $2000 (2015 dollars) per year. In the 1950's, it was less than $750 per year.[1][2]

Today, tuition & fees at a UC will cost you $15,000 per year.

In order to completely pay for tuition and fees, the state of California would have to increase revenue $3 billion per year. Or increase tax revenues by just 3%.[1][3]

I, as a citizen, feel like our government's priorities have been absolutely abysmal since the 1980's. To me, this level of insanity transcends political ideology. It's just plain dumb not to fix this.

> Now sure, I pay a LOT of taxes. But I know at least some of it goes into education and allow other student like I was to afford a good education. Having stayed in US for a while, while salaries seemed higher I don't think the cost of life is cheaper than in western Europe.

Cost of living is lower in the US (as a whole) than Western European countries, and median household income adjusted for purchasing power parity (PPP) is quite a bit higher in the US.[4][5]

That doesn't make any of this sensible, though. Sure, I'd take lower taxes if Californian kids had to pay just a couple thousand more to college than French kids. But $14k more? Insanity. Raise my taxes please.

1. http://www.dailycal.org/2014/12/22/history-uc-tuition-since-...

2. http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=84&year1=1956&y...

3. http://www.sco.ca.gov/state_finances_101_state_taxes.html

4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income

5. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity#OECD_co...

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#30
As far as I know this has been mostly about boosting "diversity" quotas at German Universities in order to perform better in international rankings. Previously this had been done by rising the amount of students coming from low-income regions (e.g. ex-Russian territory, Asia), so it is certainly a welcome change to see US students making use of that system.
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