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Data is at the heart of search, but who has access to it?

andreasgal.com

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Re: Data is at the heart of search, but who has access to it?

#21

Post by bobajeff »

I think a problem that is happening here is that there is no competition in search just like there is no competition in social networks and operating systems. Not like there are for things like automobiles, electronics and clothing.

Computers introduce a means to lock people in that don't exist in other markets. In software products there are often ecosystems that tie directly in to the product/service which are not required to be shared with competitors unlike with road systems for cars.

Regulators ought to look into ways to enforce measures that require the companies to completely open their ecosystem to competitors. Or look into ways to standardize these ecosystems and require every service/application/website comply with them (similar to how media companies are forced to include closed captioning).

Re: Data is at the heart of search, but who has access to it?

#22

Post by asuffield »

(Tedious disclaimer: my opinion, not my employers. Not representing anybody else. I work at Google, not on search quality)

This article makes a number of bold claims about the contents of data and code which its author hasn't seen, and is written by a company that is receiving a large amount of money from Yahoo. I would encourage people not to forget these details.

Re: Data is at the heart of search, but who has access to it?

#23

Post by minthd »

asuffield wrote: post #20
minthd wrote: post #16

So, since Google tracks the full browsing experience of chrome users, and hence gets more relevant data than for other browsers users, it has the theoretical ability to offer better search results to chrome users. Has anybody noticed this happening ?

(Tedious disclaimer: my opinion, not my employers. Not representing anybody else. I work at Google, not on chrome) Google does not "track the full browsing experience of chrome users". Please read the privacy policy which is very clear on this subject: https://www.google.com/chrome/browser/privacy/ I particularly draw your attention to this paragraph: "If you use Chrome to access other Google services, such as using…

Maybe i'm reading this wrong, but this sounds like Google gets your browsing history:

"If you sign in to Chrome browser, Chrome OS or an Android device that includes Chrome as a preinstalled application with your Google Account, this will enable the synchronization feature. Google will store certain information, such as HISTORY, bookmarked URLs as well as an image and a sample of text from the bookmarked page, passwords and other settings, on Google's servers "

And this isn't that far from full browsing behavior.And that's from a few minutes reading this page - we don't know if they track deeper details - like how long the page was open.

Also - Google doesn't have to collect this data. The claimed purpose of this is that you could share history on multiple devices. But this can also be achieved by sending encrypted history to Google and decrypting the history on each device you use(i think browser extensions with similar functions implement this in that way). So it's clear the purpose here is collecting data.

Re: Data is at the heart of search, but who has access to it?

#25

Post by rockdoe »

asuffield wrote: post #20
minthd wrote: post #16

So, since Google tracks the full browsing experience of chrome users, and hence gets more relevant data than for other browsers users, it has the theoretical ability to offer better search results to chrome users. Has anybody noticed this happening ?

(Tedious disclaimer: my opinion, not my employers. Not representing anybody else. I work at Google, not on chrome) Google does not "track the full browsing experience of chrome users". Please read the privacy policy which is very clear on this subject: https://www.google.com/chrome/browser/privacy/ I particularly draw your attention to this paragraph: "If you use Chrome to access other Google services, such as using…

That's specifically limited to Google services. It says nothing whatsoever about the rest of the internet!

Also note that for Google services there's no point in collecting that data because Google already has it.

Re: Data is at the heart of search, but who has access to it?

#26

Post by dheera »

jjoe wrote: post #10

So the whole push for SSL/https from Google has been opportunistic rather than good practice. I mean why would a search engine go as far as to make SSL a ranking signal?

Sites that use or at least offer SSL probably also tend to be higher-quality sites. The combination of verified identity and payment means that it's a natural filter for people who are at least semi-serious about their project.

Re: Data is at the heart of search, but who has access to it?

#27

Post by asuffield »

minthd wrote: post #23
asuffield wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Tedious disclaimer: my opinion, not my employers. Not representing anybody else. I work at Google, not on chrome) Google does not "track the full browsing experience of chrome users". Please read the privacy policy which is very clear on this subject: https://www.google.com/chrome/browser/privacy/ I particularly draw your attention to this paragraph: "If you use Chrome to access other Google services, such as using…

Maybe i'm reading this wrong, but this sounds like Google gets your browsing history: "If you sign in to Chrome browser, Chrome OS or an Android device that includes Chrome as a preinstalled application with your Google Account, this will enable the synchronization feature. Google will store certain information, such as HISTORY, bookmarked URLs as well as an image and a sample of text from the bookmarked page, passwo…

Notice that this is a feature you have to turn on (try it!). Obviously in order to perform cross-device synchronisation, it's necessary to send this information.

I'm not free to discuss the details of how these systems work, but consider this: if both the statements "Google will store this information" and "the fact that you are using Chrome does not cause Google to receive any special or additional personally identifying information about you" are hard requirements, how would you implement this feature?

Re: Data is at the heart of search, but who has access to it?

#28

Post by pain »

bobajeff wrote: post #21

I think a problem that is happening here is that there is no competition in search just like there is no competition in social networks and operating systems. Not like there are for things like automobiles, electronics and clothing. Computers introduce a means to lock people in that don't exist in other markets. In software products there are often ecosystems that tie directly in to the product/service which are not…

"Jobs did great harm to the world with his iThings: computers designed to be jails for their users. His genius was to find the way to make these jails desirable so that millions would clamor to be locked up." —Richard Stallman

Re: Data is at the heart of search, but who has access to it?

#29

Post by rockdoe »

asuffield wrote: post #27
minthd wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe i'm reading this wrong, but this sounds like Google gets your browsing history: "If you sign in to Chrome browser, Chrome OS or an Android device that includes Chrome as a preinstalled application with your Google Account, this will enable the synchronization feature. Google will store certain information, such as HISTORY, bookmarked URLs as well as an image and a sample of text from the bookmarked page, passwo…

Notice that this is a feature you have to turn on (try it!). Obviously in order to perform cross-device synchronisation, it's necessary to send this information. I'm not free to discuss the details of how these systems work, but consider this: if both the statements "Google will store this information" and "the fact that you are using Chrome does not cause Google to receive any special or additional personally identi…

Notice that this is a feature you have to turn on (try it!).

Can you use an Android phone without this? AFAIK that's essentially impossible without very deep technical knowledge.

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