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$1B TSA Behavioral Screening Program Slammed as Ineffective Junk Science

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Re: $1B TSA Behavioral Screening Program Slammed as Ineffective Junk Science

#21

Post by DanBC »

briandear wrote: post #9
Shivetya wrote: post #6

Sadly there isn't one good site running with this story so I am not sure how we get the facts in the case. It seems the one problem standing in the way of getting the facts is the TSA itself; an agency whose screeners may soon be armed

Armed screeners? That's ridiculous. I don't hear too many stories of shoot outs at the airport. The last thing we need is to turn TSA screeners into a police force. Customs agents are often armed, but they are trained law enforcement as opposed to the misfits making $10 per how searching for smuggled barbecue sauce in a carry on.

> I don't hear too many stories of shoot outs at the airport.

Perhaps because they're security conscious zones and often have heavily armed officers present?

Re: $1B TSA Behavioral Screening Program Slammed as Ineffective Junk Science

#22

Post by hn_user2 »

nmc wrote: post #7
hn_user2 wrote: post #5

Not arguing that it effective, as I haven't done any research on this, but the article does little to show that it is ineffective or that it is "Junk Science". Not a big fan of TSA, so I can reasonably believe that they screwed up, but would like to see at least a little more data if they are going to pull the "Junk Science" card.

From the ACLU⁰: "Both Congress’ Government Accountability Office¹ and an independent scientific advisory group² found that there is no evidence that people can identify deception by observing the behavior of others." Claiming the opposite without showing any proof, like the TSA is doing, looks disturbingly like "junk science" to me. 0: https://www.aclu.org/national-security/aclu-sues-tsa-records... 1: http://www.gao.…

Those are great sources, and the quote you cite is great. I totally believe everything you quoted and sourced.

I still stand by my criticism of the linked to article, of which that quote was not a part.

I think this is great stuff to bring to light.

Re: $1B TSA Behavioral Screening Program Slammed as Ineffective Junk Science

#23

Post by fijal »

Swizec wrote: post #14
fijal wrote: post #11

So this is codified racial-profiling and intuition-profiling (that singles out people with dreadlocks, arabs, sick people, stressed people etc.) unlike all other un-codified profiling employed by virtually all agents of all border security things all over the planet. If you don't believe me, try flying visually sick and you'll be questioned over and over again (not about being sick or having ebola, mind you).

That's why whenever I'm crossing the US border I put on a button-up shirt and some nice shoes. Coupled with a EU passport, the effect is marvelous. When I'm going for anything under two months, they let me through with as little as a 30 second conversation. (it also helps that I've got a business visa that says I can stay for 6months at a time)

Remember to US border officer EU passport is not a thing (Polish vs English or German for example). Either way they should totally run a rent-a-suit shop on the border ;-)

Re: $1B TSA Behavioral Screening Program Slammed as Ineffective Junk Science

#24

Post by craigwblake »

DanBC wrote: post #21
briandear wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Armed screeners? That's ridiculous. I don't hear too many stories of shoot outs at the airport. The last thing we need is to turn TSA screeners into a police force. Customs agents are often armed, but they are trained law enforcement as opposed to the misfits making $10 per how searching for smuggled barbecue sauce in a carry on.

> I don't hear too many stories of shoot outs at the airport. Perhaps because they're security conscious zones and often have heavily armed officers present?

Or perhaps it's because shoot outs are extremely rare pretty much everywhere. Most of the places where shoot outs don't happen have little in the way of heavily armed officers or security consciousness.

Re: $1B TSA Behavioral Screening Program Slammed as Ineffective Junk Science

#25

Post by res0nat0r »

nmc wrote: post #7
hn_user2 wrote: post #5

Not arguing that it effective, as I haven't done any research on this, but the article does little to show that it is ineffective or that it is "Junk Science". Not a big fan of TSA, so I can reasonably believe that they screwed up, but would like to see at least a little more data if they are going to pull the "Junk Science" card.

From the ACLU⁰: "Both Congress’ Government Accountability Office¹ and an independent scientific advisory group² found that there is no evidence that people can identify deception by observing the behavior of others." Claiming the opposite without showing any proof, like the TSA is doing, looks disturbingly like "junk science" to me. 0: https://www.aclu.org/national-security/aclu-sues-tsa-records... 1: http://www.gao.…

Maybe the TSA screening is junk due to lack of training or proper implementation, but behavioural observation is hardly junk science, Israel does exactly this and has one of the safest airports in the world due to their security screening processes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-wagner/what-israeli-air...

Re: $1B TSA Behavioral Screening Program Slammed as Ineffective Junk Science

#26

Post by Zigurd »

Reading "microexpressions" is charlatanism. The results are as vague as a Tarot card reading, for the same reasons. We've been defrauded by the purveyors of this junk. Among the places it's been debunked: http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2013/06/25/emotio...

Re: $1B TSA Behavioral Screening Program Slammed as Ineffective Junk Science

#27

Post by remarkEon »

u23KDd23 wrote: post #12

I've observed the horrible nature of this program in person while traveling. During the practice, the TSA staff talked loudly to threaten passengers and then also made "jokes" to passengers about finding chemicals on them. Essentially they try to escalate the fear among all the passengers and then single out someone who responds the most poorly. Not to mention the fact that anyone who has protested or complained abou…

A few months ago I was traveling from SEATAC. I always use the TSA-Pre line, where I don't have to remove my laptop from my computer bag. This particular trip, I placed my bag down like usual and my keys/cellphone in the dish and walked toward the metal detector just as the agent behind the x-ray machine picks up and throws my computer back the length of the conveyor belt and demands I remove my computer from my bag. I was shocked and strongly but firmly told her that what she did was completely inappropriate. Once through the line, as I was collecting my things, another agent came up and then started asking me bizarre questions like "how are you feeling?" "is something upsetting you?" (...of course something's upsetting me...and your underling just threw my computer!) I immediately hopped on airport wifi at my gate and wrote a detailed complaint and submitted. Never heard back. Wrote a second one. Nothing. Now I'm wondering if that whole experience was this program.

Then again, the simplest explanation would be that this was just another instance of TSA incompetence.

Re: $1B TSA Behavioral Screening Program Slammed as Ineffective Junk Science

#28

Post by nhayden »

chrisBob wrote: post #10
adrianhoward wrote: post #4

I'm just glad that I seem to have passed through whatever set of factors that caused me to be "randomly" selected every time I entered the US for years on end.

Do you usually dress the same, and go through the full body scanners? My wife was upset that she got patted down every time at logan, and then she looked at the display and found out that the TSA didn't like the buttons on the hoodie she liked to fly in. Now she just wears the grey one instead of the red one and flies through every time.

You can opt out and this won't be a problem. Tell them you can't lift your arms over your head and they won't even pat you down.

Re: $1B TSA Behavioral Screening Program Slammed as Ineffective Junk Science

#29

Post by JoeAltmaier »

adrianhoward wrote: post #16
chrisBob wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you usually dress the same, and go through the full body scanners? My wife was upset that she got patted down every time at logan, and then she looked at the display and found out that the TSA didn't like the buttons on the hoodie she liked to fly in. Now she just wears the grey one instead of the red one and flies through every time.

This happened pre-TSA and pre-body scanners too. Literally every time I went UK->US 1996 to 2010 I got "randomly" selected by some/all of immigration, security, and customs. I can only assume I looked/behaved dodgy in some way, was on some kind of list, or was just darn unlucky! Incidents within the EU. Zero. I've only just got the point where I've stopped scheduling a couple of extra hours of security-slack into my…

Maybe it was something you habitually wore, triggering the scanner to single you out (as another poster in this thread had happen).

Re: $1B TSA Behavioral Screening Program Slammed as Ineffective Junk Science

#30

Post by josefresco »

u23KDd23 wrote: post #12

I've observed the horrible nature of this program in person while traveling. During the practice, the TSA staff talked loudly to threaten passengers and then also made "jokes" to passengers about finding chemicals on them. Essentially they try to escalate the fear among all the passengers and then single out someone who responds the most poorly. Not to mention the fact that anyone who has protested or complained abou…

Consider this counterpoint experience posted on Slashdot...

"I recall going through security at the Charlotte, NC airport once, a few years ago, and noticed TSA agents out in the queue making smalltalk with all of the passengers. "Hey, how are y'all doin' today?", "Goin' someplace warm?", "Be sure to take off that belt buckle sir.", "Were are y'all headed?", "Y'all fly much?", and so forth. At first I thought that this was a misguided effort at public relations. But then it occurred to me that those agents were probably pre-screeners looking for nervous and evasive passengers who would then be subjected to additional traditional screening. I don't know what SPOT is and have no opinion of its effectiveness. But it seems to me that chatting up passengers in order to spot potential trouble-makers is probably the single most effective part of the whole TSA process."

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