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Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

sunday-guardian.com

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Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#21

Post by _jgdh »

random_coder wrote: post #15

I'm Indian and I'm deeply frustrated and disappointed with this. My fear is that other mobile networks like Airtel will pick up dumb ass half-baked ideas like this and start charging for data from other non approved sources and for high cost paid wireless Internet to become the norm. I know Reliance is way too greedy, but this really is a new low. While wireless data costs in other countries are coming down, here we…

As a fellow Indian, I'd find that frustrating too.

Think of the alternative - suppose the government or judiciary finds this practice illegal and outlaws it. Imagine how unlikely this is and even if it does happen, how much bad press would be generated about "job-killing License Raj" etc.

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#22

Post by thawkins »

eklavya wrote: post #18

Maybe I misunderstood. But I think the alarm bells are pre-mature. You HAVE to pay for internet access, what this announcements says is that if you visit some websites you will not be charged. How is it any bad? The websites are paying the telecom company to bear the cost of the traffic. The customer, like always, is bearing the cost of traffic to internet.

If you are a startup trying to compete with any of those 38 sites, thrn you start with a massive disadvantage. Zuckerberg is essentialy creating a massive walled garden where the walls are held in place by economic pressure.

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#23

Post by cookiecide »

eklavya wrote: post #14
cookiecide wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic telecommunications infrastructure in India is heavily regulated by a government that once actually proposed banning all VoIP services apart from the ones they offer at premium prices. Thanks to a high degree of corruption and bureaucracy, it is near impossible to enter the ISP game unless you have serious monetary or political clout. Simply starting a competing ISP is not really feasible.

Sure it is, Beam telecom (ACT now), You broadband, Spectranet (citycom now, although it is older). If you are implying that serious investment is required to setup the infrastructure, you are correct. This is the nature of the telecom game.

Fair enough. I suppose it is more accurate to claim that entering a business with high infrastructural costs is not possible for most people (where will the money come from?) and my guess is that only a small number of people who are in a position to start such a business would actually know and care about net neutrality.

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#24

Post by gojomo »

Death of the net predicted!

But the Internet defeated walled gardens before, because people actively chose "the whole shebang" over AOL, Compuserve, Prodigy, etcetera.

And, continuing improvements in networking keep making it easier, at the margin, to just offer everything.

Any fixed-menu-of-N-services, even if regularly updated, will be blatantly missing some emerging content or app that friends are talking about. That will drive people to upgrade to (or creatively tunnel!) to the real, full Internet as soon as they're technically or financially able. And that ability arrives fast, given whetted appetites, social pressures, and the rapid progress in networking tech.

Don't panic. Build. Any net barrier that's just a matter of puny business models will be temporary, and melt away from competition & Moore's Law.

Watch out, instead, for the net barriers enforced by ideologues with badges & guns. Those blockades can hold out against technological and economic forces much longer.

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#25

Post by cookiecide »

_jgdh wrote: post #21
random_coder wrote: post #15

I'm Indian and I'm deeply frustrated and disappointed with this. My fear is that other mobile networks like Airtel will pick up dumb ass half-baked ideas like this and start charging for data from other non approved sources and for high cost paid wireless Internet to become the norm. I know Reliance is way too greedy, but this really is a new low. While wireless data costs in other countries are coming down, here we…

As a fellow Indian, I'd find that frustrating too. Think of the alternative - suppose the government or judiciary finds this practice illegal and outlaws it. Imagine how unlikely this is and even if it does happen, how much bad press would be generated about "job-killing License Raj" etc.

Regardless of the press, a level playing field would in fact be a boon for upcoming businesses. Bad press is inevitable - look at the recent uproar in the US over net neutrality. There are still some people who want to make it look like the FCC is somehow restricting private enterprise which is A Bad Thing.

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#26

Post by gojomo »

nitrogen wrote: post #10
dreamdu5t wrote: post #5

What's wrong with this? They're not preventing you from paying for Internet access, they're offering some access for free. People in India are free to start competing ISPs.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_%28pricing_policy%29 for one example of how giving something away for free can be net worse for the economy/world than charging a fair price for it. Another issue is what is given for free. If free access is given to something that is 80% of what they need, people will have reduced incentive to buy 100%, shrinking the market for the 100% solution, raising its price, and keepi…

If you're swayed by that logic, should perhaps Google be forced to charge users for web search, and Android, and their other "free" offerings that put smaller competitors at a disadvantage?

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#27

Post by tedunangst »

Harimwakairi wrote: post #17
mattxxx wrote: post #11

This article is phrased very awkwardly. It reads like giving away free access to certain sites, is the same as making premium internet access. Am I missing something? Facebook hate aside, this is a change meant to give something away . Right?

Ask Netscape how they feel about Microsoft giving Internet Explorer away.

Ask Microsoft how they feel about Linus giving Linux away.

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#28

Post by pskittle »

It's understandable that Facebook needs partners to execute their vision of connecting people. I'm rooting that they end up succeeding, but if its through restricting people with low incomes to services which the connected masses don't normally use (Bing) it sux.

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#29

Post by dreamdu5t »

cookiecide wrote: post #12
dreamdu5t wrote: post #5

What's wrong with this? They're not preventing you from paying for Internet access, they're offering some access for free. People in India are free to start competing ISPs.

Basic telecommunications infrastructure in India is heavily regulated by a government that once actually proposed banning all VoIP services apart from the ones they offer at premium prices. Thanks to a high degree of corruption and bureaucracy, it is near impossible to enter the ISP game unless you have serious monetary or political clout. Simply starting a competing ISP is not really feasible.

Reliance Communications Ltd must pay those entry costs as well. I don't see why that's relevant to my point at all.

Re: Internet.org will finish internet the way we know it, hurt India’s growth

#30

Post by froo »

Tinyyy wrote: post #20
mattxxx wrote: post #11

This article is phrased very awkwardly. It reads like giving away free access to certain sites, is the same as making premium internet access. Am I missing something? Facebook hate aside, this is a change meant to give something away . Right?

Yes, it gives away free access of 38 sites. But by doing so, they also encourage more people to forgo purchasing complete internet plans and hence accessing all of the other millions of websites out there. This indirectly drives traffic to this 38 sites that they’ve picked through a very skewed and opaque process, and undermines the concept of net neutrality.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. This is simply an example of this in effect.

If people want full internet access.. pay for it. There is no story here.

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