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A Scholarly Markdown

scholarlymarkdown.com

21–30 of 97 posts

Re: A Scholarly Markdown

#21

It seems that Markdown is starting to get a lot of disgregated reference implementations. Some months ago some important Markdown users were behind CommonMark ( http://commonmark.org/ ). I'd think that it would be best to join this conversation rather than splintering Markdown even more.

I'm in fundamental disagreement with the principle behind CommonMark. They prioritize standardization over practical usability, and for that reason people will keep splintering markdown.

For example, they do not plan to add syntax highlighting blocks (the ```some code``` on GitHub) to their implementation, because they believe that it is outside the scope of markdown. Then, because a lot of people actually need this feature, they still have to patch or extend or plug-in the functionality into any implementation of CommonMark, leading to fragmentation again. And frankly, the reason that I start writing more markdown is precisely because of the syntax highlighting ability. Oh, and to write scientific articles, math formulas are a deal-breaker.

They want to have a standard, unambiguous syntax specification, a suite of comprehensive tests and a cleanly implemented parser. They want to unify the community of markdown users and developers. All of those are commendable goals. But at the end of the day, it doesn't satisfy my needs, so I'd rather use a messy, poorly specified markdown flavor or even just render the markdown with GitHub's service.

Re: A Scholarly Markdown

#22
post #17

Why? This really feels like cramming a square peg into a round hole. Anytime anyone wants something more complex than simply lightly formatted text they will have to use other tool (LaTeX), so why not just use LaTeX in the first place?

The way I see it, the main feature is being able to plug math formulas in, rather than formatting documents. It allows you to focus on your content (one feature of Markdown) while still being able to write mathematics.

"It allows you to focus on your content (one feature of Markdown) while still being able to write mathematics."

That's what LaTeX does too. Its markup, generally, is semantic.

Re: A Scholarly Markdown

#24
My spontaneous reaction is: Why don't use the existing MediaWiki syntax? It has gone through the test of years (decades?) of real-life needs, has support for (latex) formulae, everything you might need around images and references etc, one of the most powerful template systems I've ever seen, and the list goes on and on.

Additionally there is a very stable, performant and flexible reference implementation implemented as a web app (mediawiki) with excellent import/export in XML format (and the list goes on ...), versioning with syntax-highlighted diff, etc etc etc.

What have I missed? :)

Re: A Scholarly Markdown

#25
And for everything else, there's AsciiDoc.[0]

For an extra five minutes learning you get a boatload (think container ship) more features[1] - it compiles to DocBook: a mature, actually standardised, highly structured format, and from that you get HTML, EPUB, PDF, slideshows, and man pages for free.[0] For math you get MathML, ASCIIMath, and LaTeX (along with a number of ways to render them.) It has a super nice syntax, is equally good at little docs and huge books, and you could theoretically write a proper academic paper in it with the LaTeX backend. And you always know what's going to happen when you try to mix bold and italic...

Also endorsed by Linus.[2]

    [0]: http://www.methods.co.nz/asciidoc/#_overview_and_examples
    [1]: Well, five minutes to be able to do everything Markdown can do; everything else will take a bit longer
    [2]: https://plus.google.com/+LinusTorvalds/posts/X2XVf9Q7MfV (comments)

Re: A Scholarly Markdown

#26
post #6

This thing is certainly needed (vide this discussion: https://hackpad.com/New-scientific-markup-language-utAjFcYuv... ), but what would be really convincing is examples (or I am missing them?). As a side note, a lot of Markdown + LaTeX + Code can be done in IPython Notebook. (Though, there are some things absent, like referencing citations or other equations).

I read your link and, per my main comment, I'm pretty sure AsciiDoc answers 99% of your needs.

http://www.methods.co.nz/asciidoc/#_overview_and_examples

Re: A Scholarly Markdown

#27

John MacFarlane (Pandoc’s author) is heavily committed to the Common Mark standardization effort of Markdown (in fact he’s the principal designer of the Common Mark spec). Both Common Mark and Pandoc serve different purposes: the first is an initiative to counter fragmentation/balkanization of the Markdown ecosystem and in being so has to reckon with backward compatibility, consensus and adoption. The latter is a doc…

Although I'm involved in both these enterprises, let's not confuse their goals.

CommonMark is currently focused on the task of giving a decent spec for the core syntax and robust, efficient implementations; extensions will wait til that project is done, but certainly aren't ruled out.

Pandoc has always been in the game of extending the feature set. Here are just some of the Markdown extensions pandoc supports: LaTeX math (which can be rendered in a variety of formats, including native Word and MathML), LaTeX macros, inline LaTeX, automatically numbered examples and cross-references to these, automatically generated citations (using CSL styles), super and subscripts, strikeout, figures, YAML metadata, definition lists, several styles of tables, fenced code blocks with syntax highlighting, header identifiers, and footnotes. scholdoc just adds a few things on top of all this (and many of them could be implemented in pandoc filters). As noted in one of the other comments on this thread, most of the features scholdoc adds are under active discussion in pandoc as well. So it's not that pandoc and scholdoc have different aims; pandoc just moves more slowly, because it has to worry about how features are implemented in many more output formats, and it operates under some other constraints that scholdoc rejects (e.g. trying to avoid the use of English words like "Figure" for syntax cues).

Re: A Scholarly Markdown

#28

It seems that Markdown is starting to get a lot of disgregated reference implementations. Some months ago some important Markdown users were behind CommonMark ( http://commonmark.org/ ). I'd think that it would be best to join this conversation rather than splintering Markdown even more.

I'm in fundamental disagreement with the principle behind CommonMark. They prioritize standardization over practical usability, and for that reason people will keep splintering markdown. For example, they do not plan to add syntax highlighting blocks (the ```some code``` on GitHub) to their implementation, because they believe that it is outside the scope of markdown. Then, because a lot of people actually need this…

"For example, they do not plan to add syntax highlighting blocks (the ```some code``` on GitHub) to their implementation, because they believe that it is outside the scope of markdown."

To correct the record, fenced code blocks have been there from the beginning: http://spec.commonmark.org/0.18/#fenced-code-blocks.

Re: A Scholarly Markdown

#29

And for everything else, there's AsciiDoc.[0] For an extra five minutes learning you get a boatload (think container ship) more features[1] - it compiles to DocBook: a mature, actually standardised , highly structured format, and from that you get HTML, EPUB, PDF, slideshows, and man pages for free.[0] For math you get MathML, ASCIIMath, and LaTeX (along with a number of ways to render them.) It has a super nice synt…

I have yet to see a good stylesheet for AsciiDoc's DocBook output for creating a decent PDF. Do you have recommendations? I love AsciiDoc, but am only using it to generate HTML right now.

Re: A Scholarly Markdown

#30
post #29

And for everything else, there's AsciiDoc.[0] For an extra five minutes learning you get a boatload (think container ship) more features[1] - it compiles to DocBook: a mature, actually standardised , highly structured format, and from that you get HTML, EPUB, PDF, slideshows, and man pages for free.[0] For math you get MathML, ASCIIMath, and LaTeX (along with a number of ways to render them.) It has a super nice synt…

I have yet to see a good stylesheet for AsciiDoc's DocBook output for creating a decent PDF. Do you have recommendations? I love AsciiDoc, but am only using it to generate HTML right now.

Unfortunately not, XSL isn't really my thing. I'd probably consider trying to go via LaTeX, but that's because I like the way LaTeX looks out of the box and probably isn't appropriate for most things.
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