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London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

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Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#21
The worst thing about this article is how hilariously smug and self-assured the tone is.

Seriously, what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? How does he not realize that he is projecting his own insecurity and outdated ideas about "authenticity" on to these people.

Honestly, I've found that most people don't really give a shit about doing something truly meaningful and soul-fulfilling in their work. I may, you probably do too. But most people are fine with showing up, doing what they have to do, then getting out and spending time with the people that they love. What is so wrong with that?

Sure, we get it, the visual signifiers of the exotic have changed over the last 10 years. Once upon a time in the UK it was Superclubs and being part of something fancy and opulent. Now, the iconography of the working-class has been appropriated - and people want to buy into that, probably based on the tail-end of the skeuomorphic thing - where we were desiring to feel connected to nostalgia based aesthetics.

But what the author doesn't get is that people are deeply social. Sure, the economic and cultural environment will shift things the modes of interactions - but people will continue forming relationships with friends, relaying experiences, dancing to dumb songs with their friends. The artcile had some great observations, but maybe rethink framing this as "a problem" and stick to the description of culture (which was actually interesting).

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#22

Between white America's appropriation of black American pop culture and the rise of yuppie hipsterdom, this applies just as much to the U.S., doesn't it?

Oh, absolutely; perhaps the symbols might be different (say, PBR vs. Red Stripe), but the message can be the same.

See also: Mason Jars and faux-southern revivalism.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except Americans despise snobbery or snobbish attitudes of any kind, its almost taboo, while the Brits embrace it.

Not really... just depends on what group you're around.

America has a love/hate relationship with snobbism and elitism.

I think very roughly, Americans are fine with economic classes, but not with social classes. Probably because even our rich are mostly new money outside of Manhattan elite.

We love us some Warren Buffet, but hate fatcat, bluebooded new york bankers.

It probably explains why reality TV is obsessed with following around Rich people doing mundane things.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#24

Between white America's appropriation of black American pop culture and the rise of yuppie hipsterdom, this applies just as much to the U.S., doesn't it?

Except Americans despise snobbery or snobbish attitudes of any kind, its almost taboo, while the Brits embrace it.

>Except Americans despise snobbery or snobbish attitudes of any kind, its almost taboo, while the Brits embrace it.

Ah, making sweeping generalisations of one demographic containing about 80m people and another of 330m people. Bound to be a good tactic.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#25

I'm always reluctant to embrace something that is basically bemoaning "cultural malaise", especially with a rather obvious left-wing bent, BUT, it's very well written and offers several good points. In particular, this bit: "That their accent, speech patterns and knowledge of institutions, by their very deployment in the job market, perpetuate norms that exclude those who were born outside of the cultural elite." It'…

I dunno, personally I thought it was dreadful even by the standards of left-wing articles bemoaning cultural malaise, some of which at least manage consistency. Hipsters are attacked both for being "unable to do anything useful, alienated from physical labor" and because "never will they face the grinding monotony of mindless work", for taking unpaid internships and for having mortgages. They apparently go to food ma…

This may sound somewhat intolerant, but I knew I would not be able to withstand reading an article that starts with a quote of Zizek. He is IMO a very prolific source of BS, and this I say as someone who has a decent amount of respect for the works of Marx. Actually from personal experience, I am very inclined to think that the author fits the stereotype of a hipster, as do some of my friends, for whom I've endured the pain of learning about Lacan. Hipsters fit a very broad classification, but they do seem to have a common sense of discomfort at the thought of being imitated by the wrong crowd.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#26

I'm always surprised to see articles like this upvoted on Hacker News. Not that there is anything wrong with the content, but it surprises me that it is popular on a forum relating to startups and technology.

>it surprises me that it is popular on a forum relating to startups and technology

The culture they discuss in the article is highly applicable to the home of the modern startup though - San Francisco.

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#27
post #21

The worst thing about this article is how hilariously smug and self-assured the tone is. Seriously, what gives the author the right to blanketly declare the lives of the middle class to be souless, meaningless, and that their jobs are bullshit? How does he not realize that he is projecting his own insecurity and outdated ideas about "authenticity" on to these people. Honestly, I've found that most people don't really…

> Sure, we get it, the visual signifiers of the exotic have changed over the last 10 years.

Yep, and are still changing and always will. Has the author even kept up? I mean, Red Stripe? Get lost, it's craft IPA or nothing!

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#28
post #11

The middle class are damned if they do, damned if they don't by the author's argument. They are at once chastised for "inoculating" themselves from working class culture, and for embracing it.

British "middle" class and american "middle class" are really distinct concepts.

I wonder how many people commenting on this thread are confusing / conflating them?

Re: London's poor fetish: commodifying working class culture

#29

Between white America's appropriation of black American pop culture and the rise of yuppie hipsterdom, this applies just as much to the U.S., doesn't it?

Except Americans despise snobbery or snobbish attitudes of any kind, its almost taboo, while the Brits embrace it.

said who?

also SV start-up ecosystem is full of snobbery, just slightly different context/values

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