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Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag

nytimes.com

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Re: Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag

#21

Post by poikniok »

MathsOX wrote: post #15
rdtsc wrote: post #2

Like article says, unpaid internships, especially in expensive cities, is also a reliable way to select people from upper crust i.e. parents can bankroll their stay in high priced neighborhoods. Sometimes I wonder if that is what some firms and banks are doing. In this case some are using student loans for it. Which is an interesting twist on things.

If you're referring to investment banks, they pay roughly around what the upper ends of SV pays. I just signed a summer analyst internship that's prorated at 90k. I didn't hear of any firms that have structured summer analyst programs, with active campus recruitment, paying any less than 70k prorated to the term of the internship.

Are you working in IB/S&T or software development?

Re: Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag

#22

Post by MathsOX »

arthurcolle wrote: post #19
MathsOX wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're referring to investment banks, they pay roughly around what the upper ends of SV pays. I just signed a summer analyst internship that's prorated at 90k. I didn't hear of any firms that have structured summer analyst programs, with active campus recruitment, paying any less than 70k prorated to the term of the internship.

Congratulations! I signed with an investment bank as well, you working in Manhattan?

Thanks very much! Yes, I'm at one of the bulge brackets. I'm a pure maths student, not CS or finance, so the whole interview process has been really interesting.

Re: Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag

#23

Post by MathsOX »

poikniok wrote: post #21
MathsOX wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're referring to investment banks, they pay roughly around what the upper ends of SV pays. I just signed a summer analyst internship that's prorated at 90k. I didn't hear of any firms that have structured summer analyst programs, with active campus recruitment, paying any less than 70k prorated to the term of the internship.

Are you working in IB/S&T or software development?

S&T. I'm a pure maths student, not CS or finance, which is where an increasing number of the S&T pool is being drawn from.

Re: Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag

#24

Post by poikniok »

MathsOX wrote: post #23
poikniok wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you working in IB/S&T or software development?

S&T. I'm a pure maths student, not CS or finance, which is where an increasing number of the S&T pool is being drawn from.

Very cool. What group are you going to be working in? Also curious what your ideal career path would be. Are you planning on going to the buyside eventually? As somebody in a similar place, one concern is that while S&T used to be a feeder into HF pre 2008 it seems with the effective death of prop trading at banks nowadays this is a trickier path to navigate.

Re: Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag

#25

Post by MathsOX »

poikniok wrote: post #24
MathsOX wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

S&T. I'm a pure maths student, not CS or finance, which is where an increasing number of the S&T pool is being drawn from.

Very cool. What group are you going to be working in? Also curious what your ideal career path would be. Are you planning on going to the buyside eventually? As somebody in a similar place, one concern is that while S&T used to be a feeder into HF pre 2008 it seems with the effective death of prop trading at banks nowadays this is a trickier path to navigate.

Not an irrational concern, although I'd say banks are still sussing out regulatory limits and workarounds. I'd be fine working at GS for many years into the future and see folks with similar backgrounds who have done that.

For me, it's less about money and more about the institutional leverage implicit in bulge bracket firms. I'm content when I can think about big, creative problems and if that translates into less money for me personally that's alright. A large problem, in my opinion, with S&T desks is the relatively recent adoption of the IBD mentality of moving up the invisible hierarchy by working at x for two years, y for one year, getting z graduate degree, etc.

Re: Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag

#26

Post by dperny »

poikniok wrote: post #20
dperny wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but you have to be very, very good to get one of those internships. I'm a mid-top tier programmer (better than most of my cohort) from a modest state university. I've been applying everywhere, and there's no way in hell I'll make close to $20k. I'm pretty good at what I do, but there's a gulf between what you get if you're good and what you get if you really good.

Don't sell yourself short. I am a fairly average programmer coming from a state school, and I made 1800 a week plus housing last summer, and am going to be making 2000 a week plus housing this coming summer. If you are really a mid-top tier programmer opportunities like this and better will be available to you.

Where do you find these places? I've been blasting job apps since November. I think I've applied at like 15 places. No bites so far.

Re: Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag

#28

Post by courtneypowell »

dperny wrote: post #26
poikniok wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't sell yourself short. I am a fairly average programmer coming from a state school, and I made 1800 a week plus housing last summer, and am going to be making 2000 a week plus housing this coming summer. If you are really a mid-top tier programmer opportunities like this and better will be available to you.

Where do you find these places? I've been blasting job apps since November. I think I've applied at like 15 places. No bites so far.

Check out realhq.com. If you are interested email Courtney@realhq.com.

Re: Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag

#29

Post by kszx »

jackmaney wrote: post #27

This should be criminal. Internships need to be paid positions. Period. Anything else is exploitation.

You are free to reject unpaid internships. You are also free to accept it. --> No coercion. --> No exploitation.

In contrast, a law against unpaid internships restricts free choice.

Re: Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag

#30

Post by tomkinstinch »

jackmaney wrote: post #27

This should be criminal. Internships need to be paid positions. Period. Anything else is exploitation.

In most cases in the US, unpaid internships are illegal, unless they meet certain requirements of the Department of Labor[1]. It mostly boils down to a question of whether or not the employer is getting useful work out of the intern or not (though the rules are different for non-profits).

I would guess that most EU countries have similar labor laws, but maybe someone with better knowledge can chime in.

1. http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.htm

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