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TSA jails innocent traveler when he asks to file a complaint

philly.com

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Re: TSA jails innocent traveler when he asks to file a complaint

#21

Post by frostmatthew »

colinbartlett wrote: post #6
pjc50 wrote: post #3

So the police lied about his actions and what he said in order to fabricate a crime, but forgot there was a camera rolling. And of course after having their dishonesty proven in court they keep their jobs. Business as usual, really.

When I first saw these cameras appear at JFK I was alarmed: http://i.imgur.com/AA8mzMt.jpg Then I thought about it and felt safer. Now it seems even with the cameras, the TSA does what they please and aren't held to account.

> Then I thought about it and felt safer.

It's amazing (and sad) we've reached a point where we see cameras and feel safer - not because it may deter the actions of criminals or terrorists, but rather those who are ostensibly there to protect us.

Re: TSA jails innocent traveler when he asks to file a complaint

#22

Post by mindslight »

DanBC wrote: post #17
blakeja wrote: post #12

I accidentally left some throwing knives (I am a martial artist and have an interesting these types of things) in my backpack and ran into a similar situation. I was appalled when TSA found the knives, as this was just a few years after 9/11, and pretty earnest in my rapid apology. Well, unfortunately for me, not only was the TSA having a "bad day", but the police officer they called over was having a worse one. I co…

The difference is that guy did nothing while you ignored many different big warnings telling you not to take knives on a plane.

OP didn't ignore warnings - he was unaware that he was in possession of knives. Under civilized legal systems, either intent or harm is required for a crime to have been committed. Neither is present here.

The proper solution to the larger moral hazard issue is, as always, to appropriately assign liability. Civil recompense for the victim's time, emotional distress, and other damages (including all legal fees). And in extreme cases like the article, put the criminals (TSA goons and "blue shield" cops) in jail.

Re: TSA jails innocent traveler when he asks to file a complaint

#23

Post by nkurz »

pjc50 wrote: post #3

So the police lied about his actions and what he said in order to fabricate a crime, but forgot there was a camera rolling. And of course after having their dishonesty proven in court they keep their jobs. Business as usual, really.

I think you missed an important detail of the case that was mentioned in the article:

"At trial, Kieser was the first and only witness to testify. Municipal Judge Felice Stack acquitted Vanderklok of all charges within minutes of hearing Kieser's testimony. Vanderklok's lawyer, Thomas Malone, didn't get a chance to question the Philadelphia police officers and detectives who were involved in Vanderklok's arrest. Nor did he get to show the surveillance video that contradicted Kieser."

The video was never shown in court, and thus their dishonesty was never proven. Which might indicate the problem isn't just with the TSA.

Re: TSA jails innocent traveler when he asks to file a complaint

#24

Post by bdonlan »

nkurz wrote: post #23
pjc50 wrote: post #3

So the police lied about his actions and what he said in order to fabricate a crime, but forgot there was a camera rolling. And of course after having their dishonesty proven in court they keep their jobs. Business as usual, really.

I think you missed an important detail of the case that was mentioned in the article: "At trial, Kieser was the first and only witness to testify. Municipal Judge Felice Stack acquitted Vanderklok of all charges within minutes of hearing Kieser's testimony. Vanderklok's lawyer, Thomas Malone, didn't get a chance to question the Philadelphia police officers and detectives who were involved in Vanderklok's arrest. Nor…

Sounds like the point of the (presumably criminal) trial was to determine whether Vanderklok was guilty of the charges presented - once he was acquitted, there's no point in continuing. If he wants to present a case against his accusers to show _them_ as being guilty of violating the law, he can, but that's a separate case - which he has indeed filed, very recently - and would be dealt with at a different trial.

Re: TSA jails innocent traveler when he asks to file a complaint

#25

Post by chrismcb »

pjc50 wrote: post #3

So the police lied about his actions and what he said in order to fabricate a crime, but forgot there was a camera rolling. And of course after having their dishonesty proven in court they keep their jobs. Business as usual, really.

Not the police, the TSA supervisor.

Re: TSA jails innocent traveler when he asks to file a complaint

#26

Post by dredmorbius »

bdonlan wrote: post #24
nkurz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you missed an important detail of the case that was mentioned in the article: "At trial, Kieser was the first and only witness to testify. Municipal Judge Felice Stack acquitted Vanderklok of all charges within minutes of hearing Kieser's testimony. Vanderklok's lawyer, Thomas Malone, didn't get a chance to question the Philadelphia police officers and detectives who were involved in Vanderklok's arrest. Nor…

Sounds like the point of the (presumably criminal) trial was to determine whether Vanderklok was guilty of the charges presented - once he was acquitted, there's no point in continuing. If he wants to present a case against his accusers to show _them_ as being guilty of violating the law, he can, but that's a separate case - which he has indeed filed, very recently - and would be dealt with at a different trial.

The additional case is civil, not criminal.

A criminal case needs to be brought.

Re: TSA jails innocent traveler when he asks to file a complaint

#27

Post by DanBC »

soganess wrote: post #20
DanBC wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the TSA can do is call the police. It's the police who put people in jail.

Yes, but if you called the police, had them showed up to a bag of cliff bars and fitbit, you think things would have proceeded the same way? There is a special legal status TSA officials hold be it expressed or not.

OP says he was verbally abusive to the police.

If he had calmly showed police his bag of power bars and digital watch, and asked pooice to view the cctv, he would have walked away.

(It's bullshit that being angry towards officers got him arrested; it's part of the police job to deal with people in distress and they should have managed it better).

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