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Warning: Wi-Fi Blocking Is Prohibited

fcc.gov

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Re: Warning: Wi-Fi Blocking Is Prohibited

#21

Post by jerf »

seanp2k2 wrote: post #13
rbc wrote: post #2

This stuff has teeth. If you get identified by the FCC, they send you a cease and desist order. If you ignore that, they follow it up with a fine, $10,000 being common in some radio services. Marriott had to pay $600,000.

Considering that their net income for the past quarter was 192 million[1], I doubt $600k will dissuade them much. 1. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=MAR

It's also a shot across their bow. If they keep doing it after being made to pony up $600K (plus legal expenses which stand a decent chance of being higher than that themselves), the next time they are found infringing they're going to pay quite a lot more, if they don't stop.

This isn't about running around beating people with sticks, no matter how fun that may sound to us. This is chess; they want to make a move, the Feds make a credible threat, Marriot stops making that move, mission accomplished. There's not much more that "punitive" damages could do that the future threat isn't already doing. (And I didn't say there's nothing more, but there isn't much more of true social value. "Glorious, wonder schadenfreude" is not really the sort of "social value" I want to see my government pursuing.)

Re: Warning: Wi-Fi Blocking Is Prohibited

#22

Post by matthewmcg »

akurtzhs wrote: post #19
dkokelley wrote: post #12

http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/jammer-enforcement It appears even the ownership of a device intended for WiFi jamming is not allowed. I wonder if there is a distinction between active jammers and passive blocking methods. Could WiFi-obstructing materials painted on my walls for the purpose of restricting the range of my WiFi to inside my house be considered illegal under some interpretations of these laws?

Yes, there's a distinction between jamming and blocking. The FCC controls what you transmit, not what kind of walls you put up.

I wonder if hotels are going to start sporting Faraday cages soon?

"We shield you from potentially harmful EM radiation so you can enjoy a safe and comfortable night's sleep."

Re: Warning: Wi-Fi Blocking Is Prohibited

#23

Post by ak217 »

matthewmcg wrote: post #11
superuser2 wrote: post #3

Does this make enterprise/university use of rouge AP mitigation mechanisms illegal? Are Cisco and other AP controller vendors going to remove this option from their software? (If they're shipping a checkbox that is always illegal to enable, why aren't they subject to enforcement action?)

Very interesting point. A Cisco page[1] discussing this feature says: "Containment can have legal implications when launched against neighboring networks. Ensure that the rogue device is within your network and poses a security risk before you launch the containment." [1] http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/support/docs/wireless/4400-seri... Cisco seems to think this is perfectly fine to do to rouge APs connected to an orga…

Aren't jamming devices of that type illegal, as discussed elsewhere in the thread? And isn't what Cisco is doing by even manufacturing a device with that capability illegal, or at least cause for the FCC to ban its sales in the US?

Re: Warning: Wi-Fi Blocking Is Prohibited

#24

Post by gramsey »

matthewmcg wrote: post #14
superuser2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is possible/likely that this refers to what Mariott was specifically doing, which is attacking cellular modem/AP combo devices that were not connected to Marott's network in any way, just physically located in/near their hotels. University Wi-Fi blocking is usually targeted at APs that students have attached to University network drops without permission, which is a completely different thing. However, the FCC did…

Agreed. The university unquestionably has the right to prevent you from connecting a device to its wired network. The only question is whether it can use wireless "self-help" to prevent you from doing so.

Right, of course they have the right to prevent me from connecting to their network. But as I understand the FCC advisory, they do not have the right to stop me from using my own personal cellular hotspot, for example.

Re: Warning: Wi-Fi Blocking Is Prohibited

#26

Post by Kenji »

"In addition, we reiterate that Federal law prohibits the operation, marketing, or sale of any type of jamming equipment, including devices that interfere with Wi-Fi, cellular, or public safety communications."

Can't every device that has an appropriate antenna be a potential jamming device? What a weird law.

Re: Warning: Wi-Fi Blocking Is Prohibited

#27

Post by grecy »

Does this apply on private property, or on property with sufficient signage?

I've often thought about opening a bar (or movie) theater where all wireless communications are blocked, to force people to not use their phones.

Obviously I'd put up extremely big and obvious signs stating that, and I'd only be blocking if you were inside my building.

Legal?

EDIT: I wouldn't be blocking anyone from setting up a wi-fi hotspot inside my bar, but comms to the outside world would be blocked using that cool paint, or a Faraday cage of some sort.

Re: Warning: Wi-Fi Blocking Is Prohibited

#28

Post by JoshTriplett »

grecy wrote: post #27

Does this apply on private property, or on property with sufficient signage? I've often thought about opening a bar (or movie) theater where all wireless communications are blocked, to force people to not use their phones. Obviously I'd put up extremely big and obvious signs stating that, and I'd only be blocking if you were inside my building. Legal? EDIT: I wouldn't be blocking anyone from setting up a wi-fi hotspo…

Nope, blocking cell phones is even more serious. Not least of which because you'd be blocking 911.

You could, on the other hand, have a policy of "turn off your phone at the door, and if your phone rings or you pull it out, we'll kick you out".

EDIT: Yes, you can build a Faraday cage. Consider carefully whether you really want to do so, or just set a policy ("go outside if you need to answer a call").

Re: Warning: Wi-Fi Blocking Is Prohibited

#29

Post by itake »

grecy wrote: post #27

Does this apply on private property, or on property with sufficient signage? I've often thought about opening a bar (or movie) theater where all wireless communications are blocked, to force people to not use their phones. Obviously I'd put up extremely big and obvious signs stating that, and I'd only be blocking if you were inside my building. Legal? EDIT: I wouldn't be blocking anyone from setting up a wi-fi hotspo…

If it was legal, I wouldn't want to go there, since it prevents you from dialing emergency response.

I would think you could passively block it (via paint). But probably can't actively block it (jamming).

Re: Warning: Wi-Fi Blocking Is Prohibited

#30

Post by thanksgiving »

grecy wrote: post #27

Does this apply on private property, or on property with sufficient signage? I've often thought about opening a bar (or movie) theater where all wireless communications are blocked, to force people to not use their phones. Obviously I'd put up extremely big and obvious signs stating that, and I'd only be blocking if you were inside my building. Legal? EDIT: I wouldn't be blocking anyone from setting up a wi-fi hotspo…

I'd say it is OK as long as

a) what you do absolutely positively cannot bleed outside

b) you are not using a wireless jamming device

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