That's interesting. Just realized that I'm a tool when my kid is crying.
"For the Athenians command the rest of Greece, I command the Athenians; your mother commands me, and you command your mother."
-- Themistocles (allegedly) to his son
Dogs, but Not Wolves, Use Humans as Tools
21–30 of 75 posts
Re: Dogs, but Not Wolves, Use Humans as Tools
#22Huh, interesting. This makes me think about domestication of animals: it's not just about us training or imposing our will on animals, but it's also about animals understanding that they can use us as tools, as the article puts it. I say this in jest, but it sort of makes you wonder about who is using whom. Oftentimes, I notice how pets (esp. cats[0]) are looked after 24/7 by their owners, groomed, given food, shelte…
I've noticed the same thing about some car owners, I'm not sure who is doing more servicing, the car or the owner.
Makes me wonder if cars are in fact domesticated.
Re: Dogs, but Not Wolves, Use Humans as Tools
#23I onced talked to a environmental engineering student in Norway who was a lumberjack and hunter earlier (that education system!).
He told me that the main problem with wolves was that they are really aggressive against hunting dogs. If you split up too far from your dogs chances are high that a near wolf-pack will come, kill them in a blitz-action and run away.
Re: Dogs, but Not Wolves, Use Humans as Tools
#24Huh, interesting. This makes me think about domestication of animals: it's not just about us training or imposing our will on animals, but it's also about animals understanding that they can use us as tools, as the article puts it. I say this in jest, but it sort of makes you wonder about who is using whom. Oftentimes, I notice how pets (esp. cats[0]) are looked after 24/7 by their owners, groomed, given food, shelte…
Looking after a puppy - yes, it's stressful and far less rewarding than children. Signed, a cat person. I do however think this is a brilliant insight and in hindsight so obvious.
I always said dogs aren't the man best friends but only put up with us for interest, kind of a "gold-digger" pet.
Re: Dogs, but Not Wolves, Use Humans as Tools
#25The experiment was repeated with cats, however when the plate was placed out of their reach they simply glared balefully at the slave^H^H^H^H^H human until the error was corrected.
Re: Dogs, but Not Wolves, Use Humans as Tools
#26Huh, interesting. This makes me think about domestication of animals: it's not just about us training or imposing our will on animals, but it's also about animals understanding that they can use us as tools, as the article puts it. I say this in jest, but it sort of makes you wonder about who is using whom. Oftentimes, I notice how pets (esp. cats[0]) are looked after 24/7 by their owners, groomed, given food, shelte…
> Oftentimes, I notice how pets (esp. cats[0]) are looked after 24/7 by their owners, groomed, given food, shelter, etc. and pretty much do nothing but continuously solicit pleasure. Cats continually police the household to detect and eliminate vermin and other such pests, as well as acting as a deterrent to keep the pests and some other animals away. This function used to be more relevant in the past than it is toda…
Our cat has developed extreme levels (for a cat) of communication skills. From the top of my head there's about 20 meow/maw/mraw/meeaw/mwaw/mwo we can distinguish (possibly 50 if I include variations in tones and length of each phoneme). Combined with subtle (compared to dogs) body language, including various tail and body positions and ears + eyes + eyelids + facial hair movements, the overall palette of "words" and "sentences" is much more rich than I could ever have expected.
The counterpart is that he grew to be extremely dependent on us, even more than a typical dog, including attentiveness and perceptiveness.
The thing is, cats can easily be quite independent (autonomous even if you're leaving by the countryside), so if you don't go towards them, they'll never feel the need to develop any more communication skills towards humans. Contrary to dogs though, they need time alone, just like humans do. Yes, "fuck off, I need to be alone" is definitely part of mine's language (way, way before it includes claws)
Re: Dogs, but Not Wolves, Use Humans as Tools
#27That's interesting. Just realized that I'm a tool when my kid is crying.
Yeah, also you are your spermatozoid's tool for reproducing by the same logic.
Re: Dogs, but Not Wolves, Use Humans as Tools
#28> Despite the fact that they had been fully socialized, the wolves treated each of the situations as physical problems rather than social ones.
Same problem arises in many humans.
Re: Dogs, but Not Wolves, Use Humans as Tools
#29This same group is covered in the Nova episode Dogs Decoded (available on Netflix US):
http://documentarystorm.com/dogs-decoded/ (starting from 31:11)
I'm not sure if it's this episode or some other documentary, but I remember seeing the food experiment as well. Where wolves would not look to humans for help.