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Visual Studio 2015 CTP 5 Available

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Re: Visual Studio 2015 CTP 5 Available

#21

Post by aaronbrethorst »

Encosia wrote: post #14
jarjoura wrote: post #2

I remember reading that Microsoft was moving the WPF framework into maintenance mode as they focus on the WinRT variant of UI development. Interesting that from the release notes, WPF appears to be getting feature development again. Hard to know without Windows 10 consumer announcements if Microsoft internally is back-tracking on the idea of fullscreen desktop apps.

Visual Studio itself is a WPF app, for what it's worth. I can't imagine Visual Studio being rewritten as a "Modern" app any time soon. So, it makes sense that MS will continue to invest in WPF.

Parts of VS may have a WPF UI, but I can assure you the vast majority of the codebase is C++.

Re: Visual Studio 2015 CTP 5 Available

#22

Post by flohofwoe »

codingthebeach wrote: post #19
putzdown wrote: post #4

Does anyone know how the support for C++11 is looking in this version? It would be pretty great if Microsoft could finally close [the gap]( http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vcblog/archive/2014/06/11/c-11-14-fe... ) on C++11 support a mere four years after GCC and Clang completed their support for the standard. That would also give some hope that Visual Studio might have full support for C++14 in a year or two (which GCC and C…

It would be nice if you wouldn't derail the conversation with another tired old "but it's not as good as gcc when it comes to X". This is a CTP. You split hairs over minor points of standards compliance that many devs won't even use on gcc yet because the features are so new, and completely avoid mentioning that the productivity of Visual Studio (for both .NET as well as native C++, including cross-platform C++) argu…

It is a fair question given the fact that Visual Studio 2013 doesn't even support basic C++11 features like constexpr. When doing multi-platform C++11 work the code usually must be dumbed down a lot if it needs to compile also in VStudio, e.g.:

- can't use many of the new initializer mechanisms in the class declaration (initializer lists, etc...)

- no constexpr

- std::chrono high resolution click isn't actually high resolution but only has millisecond accuracy

Complete list of missing C++11 features up to VS2013 is here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh567368.aspx

Microsoft should first complete their C++11 support before moving on to C++14, otherwise it will probably never get fixed.

Visual Studio is a fine IDE, but the C++ compiler lags behind quite a bit.

Re: Visual Studio 2015 CTP 5 Available

#23

Post by gurkendoktor »

codingthebeach wrote: post #19
putzdown wrote: post #4

Does anyone know how the support for C++11 is looking in this version? It would be pretty great if Microsoft could finally close [the gap]( http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vcblog/archive/2014/06/11/c-11-14-fe... ) on C++11 support a mere four years after GCC and Clang completed their support for the standard. That would also give some hope that Visual Studio might have full support for C++14 in a year or two (which GCC and C…

It would be nice if you wouldn't derail the conversation with another tired old "but it's not as good as gcc when it comes to X". This is a CTP. You split hairs over minor points of standards compliance that many devs won't even use on gcc yet because the features are so new, and completely avoid mentioning that the productivity of Visual Studio (for both .NET as well as native C++, including cross-platform C++) argu…

Parity on standard compliance matters because many of us want to compile our code on different platforms, and that is all we download MSVC for. FWIW, it is also the only thing I look for in the gcc and Xcode/clang change logs.

Re: Visual Studio 2015 CTP 5 Available

#24

Post by kyberias »

flohofwoe wrote: post #22
codingthebeach wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be nice if you wouldn't derail the conversation with another tired old "but it's not as good as gcc when it comes to X". This is a CTP. You split hairs over minor points of standards compliance that many devs won't even use on gcc yet because the features are so new, and completely avoid mentioning that the productivity of Visual Studio (for both .NET as well as native C++, including cross-platform C++) argu…

It is a fair question given the fact that Visual Studio 2013 doesn't even support basic C++11 features like constexpr. When doing multi-platform C++11 work the code usually must be dumbed down a lot if it needs to compile also in VStudio, e.g.: - can't use many of the new initializer mechanisms in the class declaration (initializer lists, etc...) - no constexpr - std::chrono high resolution click isn't actually high…

Microsoft obviously should NOT first "complete" their C++11 support since there may very well be more important features in C++14 than some arcane features no-one would use in C++11. Same applies to all the other compiler vendors and all versions of the standard.

Re: Visual Studio 2015 CTP 5 Available

#25

Post by useerup »

taspeotis wrote: post #16

I was really surprised to read this: We have rebuilt the XAML language service on top of the .NET Compiler Platform ("Roslyn") to provide an improved XAML editing experience with rich IntelliSense that is faster and more reliable. My understanding was that Roslyn was heavily geared towards languages that are largely procedural like C# and VB.NET. So functional languages, like F#, aren't suited to being parsed by Rosl…

Having used XAML recently for purposes not even related to WPF, I can definitively see what this might bring.

XAML is at its core a format to describe an object graph declaratively. The objects can be any .NET object.

The current XAML editor already understands a lot about the objects you describe - i.e. it loads the assembly and introspects the types to give you intellisense while editing. The current one is not without its quirks and bugs, however.

I'd be thrilled to have a new, robust editor that intrinsically understands classes, properties, value converters etc to offer more assistance when writing raw XAML.

Re: Visual Studio 2015 CTP 5 Available

#27

Post by tonyedgecombe »

jarjoura wrote: post #2

I remember reading that Microsoft was moving the WPF framework into maintenance mode as they focus on the WinRT variant of UI development. Interesting that from the release notes, WPF appears to be getting feature development again. Hard to know without Windows 10 consumer announcements if Microsoft internally is back-tracking on the idea of fullscreen desktop apps.

I'm not expecting much, the roadmap is pretty underwhelming: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/wpf/archive/2014/11/12/the-roadmap-f...

Re: Visual Studio 2015 CTP 5 Available

#28

Post by Encosia »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #21
Encosia wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visual Studio itself is a WPF app, for what it's worth. I can't imagine Visual Studio being rewritten as a "Modern" app any time soon. So, it makes sense that MS will continue to invest in WPF.

Parts of VS may have a WPF UI, but I can assure you the vast majority of the codebase is C++.

When no dialogs are open, the overwhelming majority of the UI is WPF now though, to my knowledge. I remember running debug builds of 2010 that showed paint rectangles and there was basically nothing that wasn't WPF even in that first WPF version.

Re: Visual Studio 2015 CTP 5 Available

#29

Post by flohofwoe »

kyberias wrote: post #24
flohofwoe wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a fair question given the fact that Visual Studio 2013 doesn't even support basic C++11 features like constexpr. When doing multi-platform C++11 work the code usually must be dumbed down a lot if it needs to compile also in VStudio, e.g.: - can't use many of the new initializer mechanisms in the class declaration (initializer lists, etc...) - no constexpr - std::chrono high resolution click isn't actually high…

Microsoft obviously should NOT first "complete" their C++11 support since there may very well be more important features in C++14 than some arcane features no-one would use in C++11. Same applies to all the other compiler vendors and all versions of the standard.

Arcane features that no-one uses should not be in the standard but in some sort of optional extension, and a feature that is not supported by all major compilers might as well not exist, since it cannot be used in a portable code base.

Re: Visual Studio 2015 CTP 5 Available

#30

Post by StephanTLavavej »

flohofwoe wrote: post #22
codingthebeach wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be nice if you wouldn't derail the conversation with another tired old "but it's not as good as gcc when it comes to X". This is a CTP. You split hairs over minor points of standards compliance that many devs won't even use on gcc yet because the features are so new, and completely avoid mentioning that the productivity of Visual Studio (for both .NET as well as native C++, including cross-platform C++) argu…

It is a fair question given the fact that Visual Studio 2013 doesn't even support basic C++11 features like constexpr. When doing multi-platform C++11 work the code usually must be dumbed down a lot if it needs to compile also in VStudio, e.g.: - can't use many of the new initializer mechanisms in the class declaration (initializer lists, etc...) - no constexpr - std::chrono high resolution click isn't actually high…

The init list bug has been fixed for 2015 RTM. Also, I fixed the clocks back in 2015 CTP1 (alpha 1). Sorry about that bug, we just didn't get a chance to fix it in 2013 - in that release we were insanely busy converting the whole STL over to real variadic templates.
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