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Why I Hope Congress Never Watches “Blackhat”

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Re: Why I Hope Congress Never Watches “Blackhat”

#21

Post by snowwrestler »

Someone1234 wrote: post #8

Computer Crime laws are already insanely disproportionate. They were created during a moral panic when only a few individuals, large multinationals and, large governments had computers and the government were worried that "hackers" could break into the electricity grid or the communications system and shut it down. So right now you could literally break into someone's home, knock them unconscious, and then steal thei…

> So right now you could literally break into someone's home, knock them unconscious, and then steal their laptop, but yet still get more jail time for "hacking" into their laptop than any of the previous crimes.

Can you provide some examples? And not sentencing guidelines or what the prosecutors asked for; actual sentence lengths that were actually served by people convicted solely of computer crimes vs. time served for breaking and entering and assault and battery and theft.

Re: Why I Hope Congress Never Watches “Blackhat”

#22

Post by snowwrestler »

riskable wrote: post #10

I don't understand how the Sony hack relates to the proposed changes to the CFAA. If the attacker was North Korea--as suggested by the administration (which I don't believe)--then how would increasing penalties for "hacking" or developing (or even sharing) "hacking tools" make a difference? As if we had any jurisdiction whatsoever over there or that the laws of the United States would somehow deter foreign attackers.…

> If the attacker was North Korea--as suggested by the administration (which I don't believe)--then how would increasing penalties for "hacking" or developing (or even sharing) "hacking tools" make a difference?

This might be a bit off-topic, but there's potentially a distinction between North Korea being responsible for the hack of Sony, and whoever the people are who actually penetrated Sony's network and extracted/deleted the data. By analogy: if you pay an assassin to kill someone, the law holds both you and the assassin responsible.

I think this is what the government means when they say North Korea was responsible--not necessarily that every participant in the attack was a North Korean in North Korea.

Re: Why I Hope Congress Never Watches “Blackhat”

#23

Post by sp332 »

nickysielicki wrote: post #20
sp332 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where would you go?

Europe

Europe generally has fewer privacy and free speech protections than the US. And in some countries, the NSA and the national government will be spying on you. https://www.thewire.com/global/2013/10/france-not-happy-abou...

Re: Why I Hope Congress Never Watches “Blackhat”

#24

Post by rilita »

Making the CFAA apply more broadly and criminalizing hacking behaviors that are currently misdemeanors will have the following effects imo: 1. As stated in the article, restrict legitimate security work and creation of useful tools. 2. Glamorize becoming a hacker for the misfits of the world. ( It's a criminal behavior; you'll get underground respect for doing it... ) 3. Drive hacking further underground ( this is like suddenly making weed illegal again in places where it is currently legal ) More crime will result. 4. Cause me to release code I write under an alias through multiple proxies in combination with Tor.

Re: Why I Hope Congress Never Watches “Blackhat”

#25

Post by alistairSH »

Someone1234 wrote: post #8

Computer Crime laws are already insanely disproportionate. They were created during a moral panic when only a few individuals, large multinationals and, large governments had computers and the government were worried that "hackers" could break into the electricity grid or the communications system and shut it down. So right now you could literally break into someone's home, knock them unconscious, and then steal thei…

>In particular are comic cases of when companies fail to secure things at all and then someone gets prosecuted because they "hacked" that company and "stole" that data.

If I leave my garage open, and somebody takes my golf clubs, is that not theft?

Yes, the potential punishments are disproportionately harsh. Yes, the company is silly for leaving data exposed. No, it's not ok to take data because it's unprotected.

Re: Why I Hope Congress Never Watches “Blackhat”

#26

Post by dragonwriter »

rilita wrote: post #24

Making the CFAA apply more broadly and criminalizing hacking behaviors that are currently misdemeanors will have the following effects imo: 1. As stated in the article, restrict legitimate security work and creation of useful tools. 2. Glamorize becoming a hacker for the misfits of the world. ( It's a criminal behavior; you'll get underground respect for doing it... ) 3. Drive hacking further underground ( this is li…

If the behaviors are misdemeanors, they are, by definition, already criminalized.

Re: Why I Hope Congress Never Watches “Blackhat”

#27

Post by anigbrowl »

godkingjim wrote: post #16
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the Congressional Cinema Club could put on some special showings and ask for sponsorship - Car Manufacturers Lobby: Bullit - Anti Car Lobby: Duel - Trans-Atlantic Airlines Lobby : Titanic - Construction Lobby: Bridge over the River Kwai - Elon Musk : Iron Man 1 or 3 (but not 2) - The Hamptons Tourist Board: The wicker man - The Banjo Players association of America: Deliverance - Tesla Car Showrooms: Death of a s…

"The Hamptons Tourist Board: The wicker man" I'm curious; what you mean by this one?

I laughed hard at this one! The Hamptons is basically a vacation destination in eastern New York state for very very wealthy people, who don't want any riff-raff cluttering up their picturesque vacation views. 'The Wicker Man' is a film (+ a remake) about a police officer who goes to investigate a crime in a remote idyll where everyone knows everyone else and runs into...problems. Translation: let's ensure that the 'wrong' people stay away.

Re: Why I Hope Congress Never Watches “Blackhat”

#29

Post by krick »

sp332 wrote: post #23
nickysielicki wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe

Europe generally has fewer privacy and free speech protections than the US. And in some countries, the NSA and the national government will be spying on you. https://www.thewire.com/global/2013/10/france-not-happy-abou...

I don't need any "protections", I need to be left alone. That's how I actually can speak free, feel free and don't worry about my privacy too much (well, as long as I don't use skype, gmail, mobile phone… well, everything is relative, ok?). And honestly I thing that only fools believe in stuff like "free speech protections", although I usually don't try to persuade anybody about all these abstract matters. So, yeah, I'm just fine in Europe without all these "free speech protections" and stuff. I guess it could be better, but I don't feel like leaving to Siberia or some desert island yet.

Re: Why I Hope Congress Never Watches “Blackhat”

#30

Post by click170 »

alistairSH wrote: post #25
Someone1234 wrote: post #8

Computer Crime laws are already insanely disproportionate. They were created during a moral panic when only a few individuals, large multinationals and, large governments had computers and the government were worried that "hackers" could break into the electricity grid or the communications system and shut it down. So right now you could literally break into someone's home, knock them unconscious, and then steal thei…

>In particular are comic cases of when companies fail to secure things at all and then someone gets prosecuted because they "hacked" that company and "stole" that data. If I leave my garage open, and somebody takes my golf clubs, is that not theft? Yes, the potential punishments are disproportionately harsh. Yes, the company is silly for leaving data exposed. No, it's not ok to take data because it's unprotected.

What about when you leave your garage door open, and someone comes in and makes a copy of your clubs.

You still have yours. They now have a copy too. What did you lose in this other than the idea of "potential income"?

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