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Can't you just turn up the volume?

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Re: Can't you just turn up the volume?

#21
post #11

This was an interesting read, but what to me personally is more interesting is how to prevent hearing loss over the years. I might be wrong on this, but I recall a hearing specialist advising me not to use earbuds at all, or at least limit the use to max 1 hour at a time. A dynamic headphones, such as the good old Superlux HD 681 would be "better" in the long term. (Not trying to advertise for that headphone, it's ju…

If your ears hurt or are annoyed, stop. Quiet is better than loud. The more sound isolation your phones provide from the outside world, the quieter you can play your music and enjoy it. If you're sitting with headphones on for six hours, maybe you should get up a few times.

> If your ears hurt or are annoyed, stop.

I'd say it's more from the pushing on the sides of my head, not so much from the volume of the music. But you are right, and I have been thinking about stopping listening to music trough headphones when working, and use speakers.

> If you're sitting with headphones on for six hours, maybe you should get up a few times.

I have to say that my current working desk and rhythm is pretty much perfect as far as I know. My eyes never get tired, the screens are a good distance away from me, and I don't have to look down. I have a decent computer chair, and I take breaks about every hour, to go outside or get a new cup of coffee (but I do that with my headphones/earbuds in).

Heck, no employee can offer a better working situation if you ask me, I'm all for the working remote - office not required-idea! :P

Re: Can't you just turn up the volume?

#22
post #17
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any scenario where you'd want to use the speaker phone has little to do with noise. Sometimes I want it while driving because I don't have a headset (and don't plan on getting one, since I don't own a car and drive rarely). Or in the shop while drilling, soldering, or whatever. Or outside working on something. It's about using the phone while doing something else, often something that you couldn't do with something b…

Seriously.. just don't talk while driving. It's dangerous for everyone.

If you can't multitask enough to talk while driving, you should not be driving in the first place.

Re: Can't you just turn up the volume?

#23
post #15

This is nifty. My father has hearing loss and it's bad enough that not only does he use hearing aids, he is constantly turning them up until they feedback and start ringing. He doesn't hear the ringing, but I do, and I have some hearing damage of my own. And he wonders why his hearing aids go through batteries so fast. Their description of how hearing loss works gives me some ideas on how I can help my father manage…

You're not being pedantic at all. It's a fairly egregious error for an article about hearing.

It would be like an article about a camera talking about its fast f/1.4 shutter speed.

Re: Can't you just turn up the volume?

#24
post #15

This is nifty. My father has hearing loss and it's bad enough that not only does he use hearing aids, he is constantly turning them up until they feedback and start ringing. He doesn't hear the ringing, but I do, and I have some hearing damage of my own. And he wonders why his hearing aids go through batteries so fast. Their description of how hearing loss works gives me some ideas on how I can help my father manage…

It seems to me that a simple way to eliminate the feedback issue is to separate the microphone from the speaker. Hearing loss runs in my family, so I've watched my relatives struggle with hearing aids, and I've decided that when it's time for me:

1) I will build it myself and figure out the details, to hell with the audiologists and their racket.

2. I will carry the microphone and amplifier in my shirt pocket. No more feedback.

Ironically, with the advent of personal electronics, everybody wears some sort of gizmo on their body, so I think we could just persuade the elderly that hearing aids don't need to be invisible any more.

Re: Can't you just turn up the volume?

#25

This was an interesting read, but what to me personally is more interesting is how to prevent hearing loss over the years. I might be wrong on this, but I recall a hearing specialist advising me not to use earbuds at all, or at least limit the use to max 1 hour at a time. A dynamic headphones, such as the good old Superlux HD 681 would be "better" in the long term. (Not trying to advertise for that headphone, it's ju…

I might be wrong on this, but I recall a hearing specialist advising me not to use earbuds at all, or at least limit the use to max 1 hour at a time.

The issue isn't necessarily about all "earbuds," the issue is that many earbuds (including the ones included with Apple iOS products) don't seal the ear canal very well, so a listener is exposed to outside sounds in addition to sounds from the player. Since the outside sounds have a tendency to mask the sounds coming from the earbuds, the listener will often turn up the volume to better hear the audio material and therefore be exposed to SPL's that can cause hearing damage over long exposure times.

The advice to use something like the Superlux HD 681 is that circumaural headphones offer some (not a lot, but some) shielding from outside noise, so a user won't be tempted to increase the volume level as much. Active noise canceling headsets and in-ear-monitors (like Etymotics-brand) provide better sound isolation so that users can keep the volume at more moderate levels.

Re: Can't you just turn up the volume?

#26
post #5

"Why can't I just turn up the volume on my iPhone?" is something I ask myself everyday and shake my fist toward Cupertino. Seriously, the gain on the phone is severely limited. Try listening to a voice call on speakerphone in even a moderately quiet environment with just a twee bit of ambient noise. It is maddening that I can't get any more volume out of this device without jailbreaking it.

> It is maddening that I can't get any more volume out of this device without jailbreaking it.

Use a pocket battery-powered amp and a small portable loudpeaker? That'll get you both more gain and better sound than the tinny built-in speaker.

Re: Can't you just turn up the volume?

#27
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously.. just don't talk while driving. It's dangerous for everyone.

If you can't multitask enough to talk while driving, you should not be driving in the first place.

All research I've seen finds that talking while driving, even if it's just to a passenger increases accidents by a large amount. Other studies show that people tend to vastly overestimate their multitasking abilities.

So in short: very few people can actually talk safely while driving, and the people that think they can probably can't.

Re: Can't you just turn up the volume?

#28
post #6

> "Sound expresses itself in three dimensions: time (seconds), volume (decibels) and frequency (Hertz)." Is anyone else as irked about the authors choice of the word dimensions as much as I am? I can't read past it. Wouldn't "factors" be a better fit?

No. "Dimensions" is the right word, because they are three orthogonal scales along which musical notes can be measured[1]. The author could also have suggested timbre and other possible dimensions, but the three stated apply to all sound, including (importantly) sine waves, the simplest type of sound. [1] Technically, frequency is a function of time too (and timbre a function of the interaction of multiple frequencie…

Technically there are two complementary sets of dimensions: time and amplitude vs frequency and phase. Both are complete encodings of the waveform.

The article is extremely muddled from a technical point of view. When dealing with perceptions it is extremely important to distinguish physics and physiology. In optics we have radiometric (physical) vs photometric (perceived) values: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photometry_%28optics%29#Photom...

It appears in the article they are doing some kind of implicit averaging over the ear's response function at each frequency, which may make sense in terms of perceptions but makes very little sense in terms of physics.

A much better visual analog would be a blurred photograph rather than a cropped one. "Turning up the volume" simply increases the brightness of the images, which doesn't do a damned thing to reduce the blurring.

One thing that people with normal hearing don't get is how much information is in the high frequencies, which are where the most loss normally occurs, although there are also "notch" losses that happen to people whose ears are routinely subject to loud noises in narrow bands.

We tend to think of "high frequency" sounds in terms of single notes, but in speech the high frequencies are most important in the unvoiced constants, the "s" and "th" sounds and similar. Losing the high frequencies blurs the edges of speech, often making the shape of it unrecognizable. Frequency-dependent enhancement sharpens the edges and brings it back into useful focus.

Re: Can't you just turn up the volume?

#29
What’s the solution? Multi-Band Compression (MBC), a technique that’s been used by the $6 billion hearing aid industry to solve this specific problem.

An MBC uses intelligent design instead of a one-size-fits-all method. With the right data about your hearing pattern, it can mash the full sound into your range so that you get all the information you need.

Audio engineer here. That is patently untrue. MBC is a super-useful technique and is indeed helpful for mitigating hearing loss in relatively transparent fashion, but it does not and cannot bring sounds from outside someone's audible hearing range back within it. It will dynamically rebalance incoming audio in inverse proportion to the degree of hearing loss within a set of frequency ranges, but many kinds of sensorineural hearing loss involve the death of cilia cells (the tiny hairs thatvibrate at particular frequencies, much like the bins of of an FFT) which can result in a total loss of perception at or above certain frequencies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensorineural_hearing_loss

To 'mash the full sound into your range' requires a technique known as frequency shifting, but that's problematic because it destroys the harmonic relationships of the incoming material and sounds disorienting, at best.

In any case, I think the illustration of the bear on the tricycle is absurdly simplistic and makes me wonder to what the degree the pp designers really grasp the underlying concept. A much more appropriate parallel would have been to show an image with a severe Gaussian blur, which more closely parallels the actual experience of hearing loss in terms of both empirical measurement (higher frequencies tend to be more severely attenuated in cases of induced hearing loss) and subjective experience (blurring hinders edge detection, which is analogous to transient detection in audio, and which has a large role in speech intelligibility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaussian_blur

If you're struggling with hearing loss, then you should really, really consult an audiologist, work out the basis of your hearing loss (which is sometimes as simple as impacted earwax), and work out a treatment strategy. If you're suffering from degenerative hearing loss then listening to overly-compressed music could actually accelerate it, and listening on headphones or earbuds (many of which bias the sound for increased impact) could also contribute to the problem. It's a truism in the pro audio world that most people are awful at self-measurement and tend to over-equalize in the absence of proper experimental control protocols.

I apologize for the rather negative tone of the post; I appreciate the people at SoundFocus are trying to provide people with something useful and helpful at minimal cost, by leveraging the pretty good audio hardware in their phone. However, hearing loss tends to be a one-way thing, and I think that offering a product to that market without a clinician on the team is a bad idea. There's a lot more to being an 'audio ninja' than understanding the fundamentals of DSP.

Re: Can't you just turn up the volume?

#30

This was an interesting read, but what to me personally is more interesting is how to prevent hearing loss over the years. I might be wrong on this, but I recall a hearing specialist advising me not to use earbuds at all, or at least limit the use to max 1 hour at a time. A dynamic headphones, such as the good old Superlux HD 681 would be "better" in the long term. (Not trying to advertise for that headphone, it's ju…

I might be wrong on this, but I recall a hearing specialist advising me not to use earbuds at all, or at least limit the use to max 1 hour at a time. The issue isn't necessarily about all "earbuds," the issue is that many earbuds (including the ones included with Apple iOS products) don't seal the ear canal very well, so a listener is exposed to outside sounds in addition to sounds from the player. Since the outside…

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