The Story of Schiit Audio (2014) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Story of Schiit Audio (2014)

#21

Post by mkozlows » Mon, Jan 05, 2015, 12:38 AM UTC

qb45 wrote: post #7

darklajid wrote: post #5

I didn't know about this company. Can anyone explain to my if this [1] is something more than snakeoil? 1: http://schiit.com/products/wyrd

Their FAQ states that it provides its own 5V power supply for the downstream device and somehow retransmits the USB packets using a high accuracy clock. The power issue is definitely legitimate. USB power supplies are noisy and the noise can bleed to analog outputs if the soundcard has poor power supply noise rejection - I once built a USB-powered soundcard on the at90usb162 microcontroller and it produced a lot of b…

Re "whether this is important in real world scenarios", in the context of high-end audio, there are four types of products:

1. Those that make clearly audible and measurable differences. Speakers, headphones, and upgrading from total rock-bottom near-broken electronics.

2. Those that make measurable differences that probably aren't audible. Various super-low distortion figures on amps and DACs, or going from 320kbps MP3 to FLAC. Almust certainly not detectable by human ears, but instruments can see a real, measurable improvement.

3. Those that make unmeasurable differences that are not audible. These are obviously worthless and snake oil.

4. Those that make unmeasurable differences that are audible. These are either magic (none that I've seen so far), reveal limits to our previous understanding of audio measurement (these probably have existed at some point, but I'm skeptical that any current products qualify), or are actually #3 in disguise.

I think the worst you can say about Schiit is that their stuff falls into #2 -- measurably, but not audibly, an improvement over some other thing -- and since they relentlessly refuse to make official claims about the audible properties of their products, I think that puts them into solid respectability as an audio company. The worst you can accuse them of, really, is unnecessary metaphorical gold-plating.

Re: The Story of Schiit Audio (2014)

#22

Post by cthalupa » Mon, Jan 05, 2015, 12:40 AM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #11

cthalupa wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not entirely sure that I'd consider that insulting, but, from the forward: Be memorable—this isn’t about getting everyone to like you, this is about getting some people to love you. The company isn't built around catering to a massive amount of people, but instead a niche. And there's definitely a market out there that is very much swayed by the "Made in the USA, from parts sourced in the USA" line of rhetoric

Yeah, absolutely, and I really like a lot of what I'm reading in the .PDF that darinf put together. But this is still an instance of taking the low road. We all live on the same planet, and commercial jingoism isn't the way forward. Edit: if you "aren't sure if you consider it insulting," try reversing the roles. Imagine a Chinese company that brags about how they avoid using parts and labor from the US whenever poss…

>Edit: if you "aren't sure if you consider it insulting," try reversing the roles. Imagine a Chinese company that brags about how they avoid using parts and labor from the US whenever possible. How do you suppose that will play in Peoria?

If Peoria had largely created an industry based on creating things at the absolute cheapest price point and gained a reputation for making sacrifices in quality to do so, I feel like they wouldn't really have a lot of room to complain.

Re: The Story of Schiit Audio (2014)

#23

Post by bravura » Mon, Jan 05, 2015, 12:43 AM UTC

hoipaloi wrote: post #12

NwAvGuy is the truly interesting story, NwAvGuy was some anonymous person who went to audio forums and warred on Schiit pointing out technical problems with their products and the way they do their marketing. I guess someone said if he knew so much about audio why didn't he go out and design and build his own stuff and so he did exactly that designing a headphone amp that has "legendary" status, and then he disappear…

Some previous discussion about NwAvGuy on hacker news:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7451062

Re: The Story of Schiit Audio (2014)

#24

Post by throwawayaway » Mon, Jan 05, 2015, 12:53 AM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #20

throwawayaway wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

official chinese military grade stuff? sign me up. people who are opinionated can sometimes be talented, i don't take it as a negative indicator.

Who in the world said anything about "military grade stuff"? This site seems to be trying to be the next Digg.

you did!

> Imagine a Chinese company that brags about how they avoid using parts and labor from the US whenever possible.

chinese military grade stuff?

yes, i am the entire website you have interacted with for years to attain ~5k of karma.

Re: The Story of Schiit Audio (2014)

#25

Post by throwawayaway » Mon, Jan 05, 2015, 12:57 AM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #20

throwawayaway wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

official chinese military grade stuff? sign me up. people who are opinionated can sometimes be talented, i don't take it as a negative indicator.

Who in the world said anything about "military grade stuff"? This site seems to be trying to be the next Digg.

does the "designed by apple in california assembled in china" similarly offend your sensibilities?

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/1322155944_iphone_back.jpg

Re: The Story of Schiit Audio (2014)

#26

Post by loosescrews » Mon, Jan 05, 2015, 1:06 AM UTC

sondr3 wrote: post #19

cnkeller wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have any experience with the Wyrd, but I have a MacPro connected to a Bifrost DAC and Asgard 2 amplifier running to a pair of Sennheiser 650 headphones (work/live in a noisy environment). Completely satisfied.

Did you upgrade straight to the Bifrost/Asgard or did you have something like the Vali/Modi before or? I currently have those, but I'm looking at upgrades some time in the future.

I can't speak for cnkeller, but I first got a Modi and Magni. The Modi was good enough, but the Magni wasn't. The problems with the Magni were that it wasn't grounded and its volume pot sucked. The lack of grounding made it very susceptible to interference and crappy volume pot made fine adjustments in volume impossible. I replaced it with an Asgard 2 and have been satisfied ever since.

I suspect that the newer cheap amps such as the Vali and Magni 2 have fixed these issues.

Re: The Story of Schiit Audio (2014)

#27

Post by ferongr » Mon, Jan 05, 2015, 1:07 AM UTC

cthalupa wrote: post #17

ggreer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of their products are worse than snake oil. When powering off, Schiit's Asgard amp can output enough DC to damage some headphones. One Head-Fi user recorded a video of this happening. NWAvGuy tried to get answers from Jason Stoddard and ended up being banned from the Head-Fi forums. The whole fiasco is summarized on NWAvGuy's blog.[1] Of course NWAvGuy isn't the most tactful person, but Head-Fi's reaction seems…

>Some of their products are worse than snake oil. When powering off, Schiit's Asgard amp can output enough DC to damage some headphones. Early versions of the product came without a power relay, with the implication being you should have the volume pot all the way down, and unplug your headphones before ever turning the amp on or off. That is fairly standard precaution with the higher end of audio equipment, which bo…

>That is fairly standard precaution with the higher end of audio equipment

No it's not, that's called bad design. Unless high-end now stands for "poorly designed gear sold for 10 times what they're worth".

Re: The Story of Schiit Audio (2014)

#28

Post by CamperBob2 » Mon, Jan 05, 2015, 1:20 AM UTC

throwawayaway wrote: post #24

CamperBob2 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who in the world said anything about "military grade stuff"? This site seems to be trying to be the next Digg.

you did! > Imagine a Chinese company that brags about how they avoid using parts and labor from the US whenever possible. chinese military grade stuff? yes, i am the entire website you have interacted with for years to attain ~5k of karma.

So Chinese military contractors sell high-end consumer audio equipment in the US now?

Re: The Story of Schiit Audio (2014)

#29

Post by throwawayaway » Mon, Jan 05, 2015, 1:24 AM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #28

throwawayaway wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you did! > Imagine a Chinese company that brags about how they avoid using parts and labor from the US whenever possible. chinese military grade stuff? yes, i am the entire website you have interacted with for years to attain ~5k of karma.

So Chinese military contractors sell high-end consumer audio equipment in the US now?

you didn't specify high end consumer audio equipment.

anything made within those restrictions has a high chance of being made by capable people and as such would be a positive indicator for a buyer such as me.

i gave the military grade stuff as an example of something made within those restrictions by capable people.

Re: The Story of Schiit Audio (2014)

#30

Post by cthalupa » Mon, Jan 05, 2015, 1:34 AM UTC

ferongr wrote: post #27

cthalupa wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Some of their products are worse than snake oil. When powering off, Schiit's Asgard amp can output enough DC to damage some headphones. Early versions of the product came without a power relay, with the implication being you should have the volume pot all the way down, and unplug your headphones before ever turning the amp on or off. That is fairly standard precaution with the higher end of audio equipment, which bo…

>That is fairly standard precaution with the higher end of audio equipment No it's not, that's called bad design. Unless high-end now stands for "poorly designed gear sold for 10 times what they're worth".

I don't know of many big ticket amps you can turn on before you turn on your big ticket preamps and don't run a risk of having an expensive bad day.

Why? Because you are amplifying the turn on signal from the source or preamp.

Every time you have ever turned audio equipment on and heard that thump or pop, you are hearing the same phenomenon that ran the risk of damaging headphones left plugged in. It just so happens in most cases the amount of power involved isn't significant, but it does become so once you enter the realm of high powered amplifiers.

There's nothing inherently wrong about a design that doesn't include a muting relay because it is supposed to be understood how the device is operated, in the same way there's nothing inherently wrong about a car design that doesn't lock the gas tank while the car is online and running - you are supposed to know you shouldn't fill up your gas tank while the vehicle is on, and if you do so, there are risks. (Yes, sparks from the engine compartment of running cars can and do cause fires while refueling, albeit rarely)