Cool Socioeconomic hack for the day: "No toilet, no bride" in India • Hacker News Board

Re: Cool Socioeconomic hack for the day: "No toilet, no bride" in India

#21

Post by grandalf » Wed, Oct 14, 2009, 2:49 AM UTC

johnnybgoode wrote: post #4

grandalf wrote: post #3

Translation: People in the US should pat themselves on the back and feel enlightened because they have a toilet and modern sanitation. Not only is having a toilet a convenience, but a statement of equality and fairness. Articles like these help Americans feel that the US has a moral high ground, which helps sell wars.

I agree that's one perfectly valid way to interpret it, and I can see how articles like this can have that effect. It does seem like the author had something else in mind, though.

Perhaps, but I think it's important to be aware of the steady stream of "ok America pat yourself on the back again" articles that run every day. They are ridiculous.

edit: and most involve quaint stories about the third world like this one, often pertaining to women's rights.

Re: Cool Socioeconomic hack for the day: "No toilet, no bride" in India

#22

Post by Confusion » Wed, Oct 14, 2009, 6:52 AM UTC

grandalf wrote: post #20

visitor4rmindia wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How in the world did you get that from the article? I'm really chuffed about these kind of "hacks". There are a lot of initiatives in India to try and improve the lives of the rural community and it is really great. India cannot progress by leaving the villages behind.

Well, you must think either a) traditional methods of sanitation offer no benefits and only fools would choose not to allocate resources to a western toilet or b) that it is the responsibility of those in the US to be entertained by stories of third world men having to be forced to buy their women toilets. It's a small leap from men who have to be coerced to buy toilets to men who have to be coerced (via bombs) to no…

traditional methods of sanitation offer no benefits and only fools would choose not to allocate resources to a western toilet

You sketch a false dichotomy: the choice isn't either 'they are fools' or 'traditional means of sanitation are just fine'. The traditional means of sanitation are emphatically not fine. I don't just think that, I know that is true. Half of our increased life expectancy comes from better hygiene and sanitation. Have you ever been to India? Let me tell you, it literally stinks there. However, not investing in western sanitation doesn't make them fools, because proper sanitation is really costly and the perceived benefits are small. It's entirely understandable they'd rather spend the money another way.

How you can turn this into some cultural superiority issue is beyond me. You know, India really is behind the West in terms of things like prosperity and life expectancy. That has nothing to do with making you feel good: it's a plain fact.

Re: Cool Socioeconomic hack for the day: "No toilet, no bride" in India

#23

Post by grandalf » Wed, Oct 14, 2009, 6:25 PM UTC

Confusion wrote: post #22

grandalf wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you must think either a) traditional methods of sanitation offer no benefits and only fools would choose not to allocate resources to a western toilet or b) that it is the responsibility of those in the US to be entertained by stories of third world men having to be forced to buy their women toilets. It's a small leap from men who have to be coerced to buy toilets to men who have to be coerced (via bombs) to no…

traditional methods of sanitation offer no benefits and only fools would choose not to allocate resources to a western toilet You sketch a false dichotomy: the choice isn't either 'they are fools' or 'traditional means of sanitation are just fine'. The traditional means of sanitation are emphatically not fine. I don't just think that, I know that is true. Half of our increased life expectancy comes from better hygien…

Sanitation is important. I am happy that there are a variety of different efforts in India to increase awareness of germs and sanitation issues...

But an article about free hand sanitizer being given away at the grocery store (for example) is far less entertaining to Americans (who have a taste for stories about their cultural supremacy) than a story about men having their marriage proposals shot down unless they agree to purchase a toilet.

The story humiliates and emasculates Indian males, and puts the blame for a big public health problem on men, as if they need to be coerced to buy a toilet ... which in India is still more of a luxury good than a sanitation necessity.

Imagine a story about American men being denied marriage unless they purchased a car with front and side airbags, anti-lock brakes, and traction control, the cheapest of which costs $19K. Then the judgmental but bemused tone sounds a bit more annoying to those who don't sense it when it's about brown people... and coincidentally brown people are the ones we drop bombs on.