Live data from Hacker News

Underactuated Rotor for Simple Micro Air Vehicles

modlabupenn.org

21–30 of 84 posts

Re: Underactuated Rotor for Simple Micro Air Vehicles

#21
post #8

Now if we could just start printing these parts at home...

I did printed helicopter blades three years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXlUSWrVzys These other components look printable too. Right now I am making 3D printable robots that don't need any non-printed parts aside from motors, bearings, and drive belts (and batteries and electronics). So these definitely should be printable at home.

That sounds cool, do you have any links to your projects?

Re: Underactuated Rotor for Simple Micro Air Vehicles

#23

This thing is so nimble in the air yet has a fraction of the complexity of a regular helicopter. I wonder if this method will scale up to "full size"?

It would probably work but I'm guessing the overhead of the extra actuators is much smaller at full size, so this may not be as helpful as at small sizes.

Re: Underactuated Rotor for Simple Micro Air Vehicles

#24
post #22
post #5

This is so clever! Turning mechanical control problems into informational control problems is critical to the ubiquity of micro air vehicles.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

"The linkage to change the pitch of this rotating blade is way too complex! Can we simplify it somehow?"

"How about we just add a simple device that associates the pitch of the blade with the torque, and let a computer figure out how to spin the motor to get the pitch we want? No linkage!"

Yeah, that is dang clever.

Re: Underactuated Rotor for Simple Micro Air Vehicles

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not, for the same reason that a quadcopter doesn't really scale to full size. The inertia effects of larger rotors make changing the speed of the rotors within a rotation much harder. With full sized helis, it takes a long time to spin up the rotors to speed before the pitch is changed to take off.

Well the critical difference here is that changing blade speed is not needed or desired. They just need to change blade torque, which would apparently immediately cause a change in blade pitch. I don't see a specific reason why this wouldn't scale. I do wonder what changes in load do to the system though. If it can't handle changing loads without messing up the blade dynamics, it would only work for fixed payload sys…

It won't scale because of inertia. Rapidly changing the speed/torque of a large combustion engine is nearly impossible.

It's a great solution for reducing mechanical complexity in mini/micro sized UAVs, though.

Re: Underactuated Rotor for Simple Micro Air Vehicles

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the critical difference here is that changing blade speed is not needed or desired. They just need to change blade torque, which would apparently immediately cause a change in blade pitch. I don't see a specific reason why this wouldn't scale. I do wonder what changes in load do to the system though. If it can't handle changing loads without messing up the blade dynamics, it would only work for fixed payload sys…

It won't scale because of inertia. Rapidly changing the speed/torque of a large combustion engine is nearly impossible. It's a great solution for reducing mechanical complexity in mini/micro sized UAVs, though.

I don't think scaling this up is a question of inertia it is more a question of weither a material exists that can be used in those flexural joints with much higher loads.

This is a material science question. A material may exist that has the right combination of flex, strength and lets also not forget durability. I am a mechanical engineer and crack propagation and cycle fatigue would be a major concern for a joint like that at large loads. There are all kinds of amazing tricks material scientists know how to play to combat these types of problem.

I think this could be scaled up if material to make those flexure joints exist.

Re: Underactuated Rotor for Simple Micro Air Vehicles

#29
post #5

This is so clever! Turning mechanical control problems into informational control problems is critical to the ubiquity of micro air vehicles.

There is a lot of potential in solving mechanical problems with information systems, rather than using complicated mechanical solutions. For instance, hydraulic automatic transmissions and differential.

The mechanical solutions are always really interesting and clever, but digital systems are much more flexible.

Really cool video on the mechanical ignition timing control in a delorean to control emissions. Explanation of ignition advance at the end: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge1GwepqtK0

Re: Underactuated Rotor for Simple Micro Air Vehicles

#30
post #26
post #8

Now if we could just start printing these parts at home...

Seriously, why? Injection molding has far lower cost, higher quality, and you're talking about things that are very cheap and easy to ship. What does 3D printing bring to this?

1m square deskspace requirements and fast tooling in software, rather than thousands of pounds and new metal every time you want to change a detail.

Injection moulding is only lower cost when you want to buy something that is already mass manufactured or millions of identical things. Up to about 10,000 units, 3d printing is cheaper.

Post reply on HN