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When Korea imposed a limit on working hours, did it make people happier?

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Re: When Korea imposed a limit on working hours, did it make people happier?

#21
post #4

I can speek for Greece, where is ban on sunday work. For workers it just means they have to work unpaid (and undeclared) overtimes. If you wont to make people happy, just introduce double pay for overtimes and really enforce it!

If you cannot "really enforce" one policy why do you think you will be able to "really enforce" the other?

When enforcement doesn't work rules are guidelines.

Re: When Korea imposed a limit on working hours, did it make people happier?

#22
post #4

I can speek for Greece, where is ban on sunday work. For workers it just means they have to work unpaid (and undeclared) overtimes. If you wont to make people happy, just introduce double pay for overtimes and really enforce it!

I worked at lots of places with official 8 hour days. In reality some (senior) people worked 6, and many (junior) worked 12-16. Hard to imagine a top down law limiting working hours will have much effect. It's attacking the cosmetics of a symptom, and not the real cause.

That said... Let's list several big ifs...

If... The last few marginal hours are more productive than hiring someone new.

And If... The economy is a zero-sum game. (For my company to make money, yours has to lose it)

And If... We can coordinate everyone in the world.

And If... We can enforce it.

Then doing something like putting a formal limit on hours makes sense. This is much more in line with a communist/socialist world-view.

Re: When Korea imposed a limit on working hours, did it make people happier?

#23
post #18
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The article author suggests that the Korean laws may not have gone far enough." That's a really scary line of logic though. "We did a thing, and there was no effect. We propose that to obtain the desired effect we should do even more of the thing that had no effect." That's undisprovable. It's possible that doing the thing that produced no results even harder could have some positive effect, but the world is probabl…

> It's possible that doing the thing that produced no results even harder could have some positive effect, but the world is probably even more full of things that produced no results but if pushed harder will have negative effects. Part of being a real scientist is acknowledging that this can only be interpreted as evidence against the idea that forcing shorter work hours will make people happier, no matter how cogni…

If you are testing A vs notA, and you exclude some scenarios in which A is true (and dont exclude anything else), that is (by definition) evidence for notA and against A. (at least by a bayesian definition)

Now, might be that the priors for A were very large, and A is still the most likely hypothesis. But the evidence just received reduced those priors

-----------------

(I know that the case in point does not fit the rather strict requirements of the first paragraph. But I think the affirmation "the hypothesis that reducing the workload improves the life of the worker, while still very likely, is now a bit less likely" is true in this case.)

(The phrase in " " sounds odd to me. If I knew numbers, it would be much better to say P(A) was 95% and now is 90%)

Re: When Korea imposed a limit on working hours, did it make people happier?

#24
post #20

Happiness-wise South Korea ranks 41. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report ). Here in Switzerland (3rd in happiness) it is not unusual that people are employed only 3-4 days / week and still make enough money to live well. I don't know of any other country where this is commonplace. (Full disclosure: If you're from the EU and looking for a tech-job over here, I'd be happy to help out).

I think working hours is just a symptom. Look at the funnel... Korean kids spend an ungodly amount of time in class and doing test prep. Putting a cosmetic limit to the amount of hours worked doesn't change society on it's own.

Re: When Korea imposed a limit on working hours, did it make people happier?

#25
post #20

Happiness-wise South Korea ranks 41. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report ). Here in Switzerland (3rd in happiness) it is not unusual that people are employed only 3-4 days / week and still make enough money to live well. I don't know of any other country where this is commonplace. (Full disclosure: If you're from the EU and looking for a tech-job over here, I'd be happy to help out).

Check out my blog, what jobs do you have? :) http://webdesignporto.com/

Re: When Korea imposed a limit on working hours, did it make people happier?

#26
post #21
post #4

I can speek for Greece, where is ban on sunday work. For workers it just means they have to work unpaid (and undeclared) overtimes. If you wont to make people happy, just introduce double pay for overtimes and really enforce it!

If you cannot "really enforce" one policy why do you think you will be able to "really enforce" the other? When enforcement doesn't work rules are guidelines.

And while you are at wishful thinking, one could also ban the whole “undeclared” Greek system such as how you have to give cash to your MD to get proper treatment, how you declare half the value of a house when you sell and buy it, or how you have to pay extra to get receipts (to attach them to your tax return, well hand-washing done corrupted governments!).

Re: When Korea imposed a limit on working hours, did it make people happier?

#27
post #20

Happiness-wise South Korea ranks 41. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report ). Here in Switzerland (3rd in happiness) it is not unusual that people are employed only 3-4 days / week and still make enough money to live well. I don't know of any other country where this is commonplace. (Full disclosure: If you're from the EU and looking for a tech-job over here, I'd be happy to help out).

I think working hours is just a symptom. Look at the funnel... Korean kids spend an ungodly amount of time in class and doing test prep. Putting a cosmetic limit to the amount of hours worked doesn't change society on it's own.

Yet, South Korea ranks high for a First-World-Country in "increase in happiness".

If one sorts "World Happiness Report" according to "change in happiness 2005-2007", the top countries are mostly from the second- or third-world with the exception of South Korea.

Re: When Korea imposed a limit on working hours, did it make people happier?

#28
post #20

Happiness-wise South Korea ranks 41. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report ). Here in Switzerland (3rd in happiness) it is not unusual that people are employed only 3-4 days / week and still make enough money to live well. I don't know of any other country where this is commonplace. (Full disclosure: If you're from the EU and looking for a tech-job over here, I'd be happy to help out).

Same here at the number 4 on the list... I work 4 days a week, my wife works 3. My employer also works 4.

My day off is awesome, and accounts for a lot of my happiness. And the happiness of my kids, I'm sure!

US may be the leading in economy, but we (Northern and Western Europe) are way ahead of you guys when it comes to a healthy work-life balance...

Re: When Korea imposed a limit on working hours, did it make people happier?

#29
post #11
post #2

Reading the abstract from the actual paper itself seems to indicate that people were not more or less satisfied with their jobs after the reduction of working hours. "While satisfaction with working hours increased, reductions had no impact on job and life satisfaction." It seems people did actually like the reduced number of hours, they didn't say that they liked their job more, or found more satisfaction in their l…

This sounds like it might relate to the "hedonic treadmill": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill Brickman, Coates, and Janoff-Bulman were among the first to investigate the hedonic treadmill in their 1978 study, “Lottery Winners and Accident Victims: Is Happiness Relative?”. Lottery winners and paraplegics were compared to a control group and as predicted, comparison (with past experiences and current comm…

I don't think we should have expected the temporary news of decreased hours to account for greater happiness, but rather that people filled their newly free time with pursuits that made them happy.

Re: When Korea imposed a limit on working hours, did it make people happier?

#30
post #20

Happiness-wise South Korea ranks 41. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report ). Here in Switzerland (3rd in happiness) it is not unusual that people are employed only 3-4 days / week and still make enough money to live well. I don't know of any other country where this is commonplace. (Full disclosure: If you're from the EU and looking for a tech-job over here, I'd be happy to help out).

Same here at the number 4 on the list... I work 4 days a week, my wife works 3. My employer also works 4. My day off is awesome, and accounts for a lot of my happiness. And the happiness of my kids, I'm sure! US may be the leading in economy, but we (Northern and Western Europe) are way ahead of you guys when it comes to a healthy work-life balance...

Isn't it all very individual though? What if someone derives happiness and satisfaction from working? Should they be prohibited from working more than a set number of days/hours per week?
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