One thing that always fails with that is that management always get more money. Wanna be a tech leader paid 150k? (fancy title, +- same salary as before) Or wanna be a director paid 250k? (fancier title, way bigger salary) Kinda difficult not to choose the "free tesla every year" isn't it? Plus.. the directory job is generally going to mean a more relaxed job (albeit less interesting for an engineer maybe, but that's…
How to reward skilled coders with something other than people management
21–30 of 158 posts
Re: How to reward skilled coders with something other than people management
#22Working with brilliant people and managing people problems are very complex and interesting to me.
Re: How to reward skilled coders with something other than people management
#23If a sales guy sells 10x, he gets 10x commision.. If a coder produces 10x, pay him 10x. What is so hard to understand about that ?
The challenge from the business side is to evaluate reliably how to measure "10x" in this context. While there is widespread agreement that some programmers are significantly more productive than others (maybe even 10x as productive), there is much less agreement on how, exactly, such productivity is measured. With sales, it's very easy: you count Dollars In The Door. Maybe you also count something like New Customer…
If they can't, perhaps they're 0.5x managers.
Re: How to reward skilled coders with something other than people management
#24If a sales guy sells 10x, he gets 10x commision.. If a coder produces 10x, pay him 10x. What is so hard to understand about that ?
It's much harder to measure the production of "coders."
Re: How to reward skilled coders with something other than people management
#25Re: How to reward skilled coders with something other than people management
#26For me its pretty simple: Pay me what I'm worth. None of this managerial shite, just dollars. I will be happy.
Re: How to reward skilled coders with something other than people management
#27One thing that always fails with that is that management always get more money. Wanna be a tech leader paid 150k? (fancy title, +- same salary as before) Or wanna be a director paid 250k? (fancier title, way bigger salary) Kinda difficult not to choose the "free tesla every year" isn't it? Plus.. the directory job is generally going to mean a more relaxed job (albeit less interesting for an engineer maybe, but that's…
This is why IBM created a separate path back in the 1950s so good technical people didn't have to become managers in order to be promoted. There are many ways to provide leadership, and not every manager leads much.
Re: How to reward skilled coders with something other than people management
#28Am I the only coder who's always wanted to move into the business side eventually? I go back and forth on if I want to pursue an MBA every couple years or so (though I doubt the education would be worth it, it'd be a stamp on my resume for wanting to go that direction). Working with brilliant people and managing people problems are very complex and interesting to me.
I doubt it. The idea of not wanting to manage people gets more noise because 'moving into management' seems to be default path, and in some organizations if you don't move in that direction, you are punished. So people complain more loudly about these issues.
Re: How to reward skilled coders with something other than people management
#29Am I the only coder who's always wanted to move into the business side eventually? I go back and forth on if I want to pursue an MBA every couple years or so (though I doubt the education would be worth it, it'd be a stamp on my resume for wanting to go that direction). Working with brilliant people and managing people problems are very complex and interesting to me.
Dave McClure had a really good discussion once on starting a startup as the new MBA: far more interesting to hear you talk about how you sold $200k of sales than hear about how you read about someone doing the same. This also gives you a lot of opportunities to directly apply engineering skills in the service of your business goals. Those opportunities exist (in quantity!) in real life, but may not in any given MBA program.
Re: How to reward skilled coders with something other than people management
#30Often the Jedi Masters were tapped to teach intro engineering course to new engineers on the specifics of the type of projects this company worked on, so this was a quasi-academic and quasi-consulting gig for the best of the best engineers.
As a fairly new engineer, I got assigned to a new group and invited to a meeting that could impact the system I was working on. I show up and it is a meeting with an engineering partner (outside company) that was contesting some calcs regarding the pipe strength and mounting requirements for an installation (multi-billion dollar project). Their engineering team was insisting on assumptions that would have quadrupled the cost of a system that our group was responsible for, not to mention weeks or months of delays to recalc and redesign the system. Unbeknownst to me, this dispute had been at logger heads for months with no resolution.
One of the Jedi's, let's just call him Fred, taught me years before in the intro courses and I had remained in contact with him over time. Based on the courses Fred taught I thought he might have the expertise and interest in this area to take a look at this problem so I met with him and gave him the technical details. He agreed to attend the next meeting and advise but he made me do all the calcs, presentation and etc. for the next meeting but all under his guidance. So I go through my PPT presentation and at the end the other company's engineers have all sorts of objections, disagreements, etc. So our Jedi steps in and starts fielding questions and asks them to justify their position. It turns out that their reference text they were using to justify their position was actually written by Fred! I can still hear the other engineer say, "you mean you are Fred XYZ that wrote book ABC" with awe and respect in his voice. It turns out they were missing some important exceptions and qualifications later in the book that Fred cited and the meeting and conflict was resolved.
So the moral of the story is to always have a Jedi in your corner? No.
The moral of the story is that engineers and problem solvers (and I assume coders) have different motivation than the "success" of big, showy career managing a lot of people. We (technical people) love to solve problems and management is projecting their values onto technical people when they offer them management positions as "promotions".