VP8 and H.264 to both become mandatory for WebRTC • Hacker News Board

Re: VP8 and H.264 to both become mandatory for WebRTC

#21

Post by cwyers » Mon, Nov 17, 2014, 5:13 AM UTC

yuhong wrote: post #2

Hopefully this means MS is finally willing to support VP8 and hopefully WebM too.

Seeing as Microsoft is still pushing an alternative to WebRTC, I somehow doubt it.

Re: VP8 and H.264 to both become mandatory for WebRTC

#22

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Nov 17, 2014, 5:18 AM UTC

higherpurpose wrote: post #14

Only these two, or can others be used as well - such as Daala?

[deleted]

Re: VP8 and H.264 to both become mandatory for WebRTC

#23

Post by shmerl » Mon, Nov 17, 2014, 5:22 AM UTC

I hope Daala will put an end to this mess. But even though Opus is mandatory now, it didn't yet translate into support by Apple and MS for instance for regular music and Web audio. Their historic sickening opposition to open codecs is not easy to dismantle. Apple still doesn't even support FLAC, just because they like to make things messy for everyone.

By the way, what happened with Nokia's attacks on VP8? Were they refuted by Google or they were validated by some courts?

Re: VP8 and H.264 to both become mandatory for WebRTC

#24

Post by derf_ » Mon, Nov 17, 2014, 7:27 AM UTC

shmerl wrote: post #23

I hope Daala will put an end to this mess. But even though Opus is mandatory now, it didn't yet translate into support by Apple and MS for instance for regular music and Web audio. Their historic sickening opposition to open codecs is not easy to dismantle. Apple still doesn't even support FLAC, just because they like to make things messy for everyone. By the way, what happened with Nokia's attacks on VP8? Were they…

Cisco hired a law firm to write a summary, which they made public: http://www.duanemorris.com/memo/VP8Compilation.pdf

TL/DR: VP8 was found not to infringe one patent. The other proceeding in the German courts was stayed until it was determined if the patent was valid. Before that could happen, Nokia and HTC settled all of their outstanding suits for some undisclosed amount. All remaining actions between those two parties were dismissed without prejudice (including the VP8 lawsuits). Separately, Google is still proceeding with two lawsuits in Germany to get the Nokia patents declared invalid.

Re: VP8 and H.264 to both become mandatory for WebRTC

#25

Post by eridius » Mon, Nov 17, 2014, 7:28 AM UTC

shmerl wrote: post #23

I hope Daala will put an end to this mess. But even though Opus is mandatory now, it didn't yet translate into support by Apple and MS for instance for regular music and Web audio. Their historic sickening opposition to open codecs is not easy to dismantle. Apple still doesn't even support FLAC, just because they like to make things messy for everyone. By the way, what happened with Nokia's attacks on VP8? Were they…

> Their historic sickening opposition to open codecs

What are you talking about? I'm not aware of any historic opposition to open codecs at Apple. Hell, they're still big into AAC, which is an open codec. And even ALAC is now open source and royalty-free.

Re: VP8 and H.264 to both become mandatory for WebRTC

#26

Post by l33tbro » Mon, Nov 17, 2014, 7:33 AM UTC

I thought the licensing thing is not an issue if you switch to x264 (open source)? Better video also - smaller file size, less artifacts, doesn't desaturate the image.

Re: VP8 and H.264 to both become mandatory for WebRTC

#27

Post by gcp » Mon, Nov 17, 2014, 7:48 AM UTC

eridius wrote: post #25

shmerl wrote: post #23

I hope Daala will put an end to this mess. But even though Opus is mandatory now, it didn't yet translate into support by Apple and MS for instance for regular music and Web audio. Their historic sickening opposition to open codecs is not easy to dismantle. Apple still doesn't even support FLAC, just because they like to make things messy for everyone. By the way, what happened with Nokia's attacks on VP8? Were they…

> Their historic sickening opposition to open codecs What are you talking about? I'm not aware of any historic opposition to open codecs at Apple. Hell, they're still big into AAC, which is an open codec. And even ALAC is now open source and royalty-free.

He meant patent-free codecs, not open codecs. i.e. Vorbis, FLAC, Opus, Theora, VP8.

Re: VP8 and H.264 to both become mandatory for WebRTC

#28

Post by shmerl » Mon, Nov 17, 2014, 7:53 AM UTC

gcp wrote: post #27

eridius wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their historic sickening opposition to open codecs What are you talking about? I'm not aware of any historic opposition to open codecs at Apple. Hell, they're still big into AAC, which is an open codec. And even ALAC is now open source and royalty-free.

He meant patent-free codecs, not open codecs. i.e. Vorbis, FLAC, Opus, Theora, VP8.

Yes, free codecs probably would be a better term. Open here refers not just to the availability of open source tools, but them being open for entry for any participant (including for example projects and individuals who can't pay any license fees).

Re: VP8 and H.264 to both become mandatory for WebRTC

#29

Post by shmerl » Mon, Nov 17, 2014, 7:59 AM UTC

eridius wrote: post #25

shmerl wrote: post #23

I hope Daala will put an end to this mess. But even though Opus is mandatory now, it didn't yet translate into support by Apple and MS for instance for regular music and Web audio. Their historic sickening opposition to open codecs is not easy to dismantle. Apple still doesn't even support FLAC, just because they like to make things messy for everyone. By the way, what happened with Nokia's attacks on VP8? Were they…

> Their historic sickening opposition to open codecs What are you talking about? I'm not aware of any historic opposition to open codecs at Apple. Hell, they're still big into AAC, which is an open codec. And even ALAC is now open source and royalty-free.

> And even ALAC is now open source and royalty-free.

Nothing stops them from supporting FLAC as well except their nasty attitude in general. FLAC is actually used by many services which sell music, unlike ALAC.

AAC is nowhere patent free.

Re: VP8 and H.264 to both become mandatory for WebRTC

#30

Post by shmerl » Mon, Nov 17, 2014, 8:01 AM UTC

derf_ wrote: post #24

shmerl wrote: post #23

I hope Daala will put an end to this mess. But even though Opus is mandatory now, it didn't yet translate into support by Apple and MS for instance for regular music and Web audio. Their historic sickening opposition to open codecs is not easy to dismantle. Apple still doesn't even support FLAC, just because they like to make things messy for everyone. By the way, what happened with Nokia's attacks on VP8? Were they…

Cisco hired a law firm to write a summary, which they made public: http://www.duanemorris.com/memo/VP8Compilation.pdf TL/DR: VP8 was found not to infringe one patent. The other proceeding in the German courts was stayed until it was determined if the patent was valid. Before that could happen, Nokia and HTC settled all of their outstanding suits for some undisclosed amount. All remaining actions between those two par…

Thanks, that sounds pretty promising.