It’s time to extend the US Privacy Act to EU citizens • Hacker News Board

Re: It’s time to extend the US Privacy Act to EU citizens

#21

Post by wtbob » Thu, Nov 13, 2014, 2:43 PM UTC

tgb wrote: post #6

I find the situation where we grant rights to our citizens without granting them to foreigners (particularly citizens of our close allies, but also foreigners in general) bizarre and backwards. While I'm sure that there are some rights that cannot be extended to non-citizens, it seems that the default should be to treat all people independently of their country of origin unless there are strong arguments why we canno…

> I find the situation where we grant rights to our citizens without granting them to foreigners (particularly citizens of our close allies, but also foreigners in general) bizarre and backwards.

I find the idea that subjects of a foreign state have any rights not arranged by agreement between our state and theirs fundamentally bizarre. That's what states are for, in a post-Westphalian world.

Re: It’s time to extend the US Privacy Act to EU citizens

#22

Post by Tombone5 » Thu, Nov 13, 2014, 2:44 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #20

It's often claimed that politics in the US is run by / dominated by corporations. I find the contradiction in that claim at times like this to be especially dramatic. The biggest corporations in America - Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc - are actively being harmed by the US Government. US telecoms are having the doors shut to business in Europe and Asia, because of this stuff. Countless billions in pr…

The wonky thing being that they would have to pay tax on that money if they take it to the US, but they've already made all that effort not to pay tax on the income in the country of origin! (sad face)

Re: It’s time to extend the US Privacy Act to EU citizens

#23

Post by shitehawk » Thu, Nov 13, 2014, 2:46 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #20

It's often claimed that politics in the US is run by / dominated by corporations. I find the contradiction in that claim at times like this to be especially dramatic. The biggest corporations in America - Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc - are actively being harmed by the US Government. US telecoms are having the doors shut to business in Europe and Asia, because of this stuff. Countless billions in pr…

If Apple is actively being harmed by the US Government it sure doesn't seem it as they are making more than they ever have.

Re: It’s time to extend the US Privacy Act to EU citizens

#24

Post by dkopi » Thu, Nov 13, 2014, 2:47 PM UTC

abaco wrote: post #7

Problem is quite a few european countries right now don't trust american companies anymore so they are working on their own mail service, cloud, network and hardware components, ... (you know if american companies agreed with american government to spy on us they kinda deserve a nice f k off). So who is damaged by this european behaviour? American companies. And now Google is suddenly concerned about our privacy. Mid…

"if american companies agreed with american government" Just as a reminder, The government threatened to fine Yahoo $250,000 a day if it did not immediately cave in and comply with the secret court order. http://www.wired.com/2014/09/feds-yahoo-fine-prism/

This blog post could actually be Google's way of silently signaling us that the US gov't is still strong arming american companies, and it needs the help of public pressure in order to keep our information safe and secure.

Re: It’s time to extend the US Privacy Act to EU citizens

#25

Post by Achshar » Thu, Nov 13, 2014, 2:49 PM UTC

Why just EU? The EU delegates can pressure US to cover anyone under the act not just EU residents. If US bends to EU's demands about privacy but doesn't treat rest of the world similarly then it says something about US.

Re: It’s time to extend the US Privacy Act to EU citizens

#26

Post by adventured » Thu, Nov 13, 2014, 2:49 PM UTC

shitehawk wrote: post #23

adventured wrote: post #20

It's often claimed that politics in the US is run by / dominated by corporations. I find the contradiction in that claim at times like this to be especially dramatic. The biggest corporations in America - Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc - are actively being harmed by the US Government. US telecoms are having the doors shut to business in Europe and Asia, because of this stuff. Countless billions in pr…

If Apple is actively being harmed by the US Government it sure doesn't seem it as they are making more than they ever have.

The calculations on business lost to the Snowden revelations, is tallied in at least the tens of billions, and it's likely to get more dramatic over time by encouraging new European and Asian competition (to build matching scale replacement services) where there previously was not as much.

Re: It’s time to extend the US Privacy Act to EU citizens

#27

Post by lucaspiller » Thu, Nov 13, 2014, 2:49 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #5

[deleted]

It's pretty easy to say that, but even if you are a customer of a company using US services this affects you. It isn't always obvious or user facing either; what if you go to buy a house and the estate agent uses Salesforce?

Re: It’s time to extend the US Privacy Act to EU citizens

#28

Post by flexie » Thu, Nov 13, 2014, 2:49 PM UTC

In general, whenever it comes to human rights - or civil rights as Americans like to call it - it's appalling that they distinguish between citizens and foreigners (or aliens as they label us).

Imagine European countries denying human rights to non citizens: Okay to torture a Somali? No problem throwing Americans in prison without trial? Sure, let's wiretap cell phones of all Turks in Europe? I don't think so.

Re: It’s time to extend the US Privacy Act to EU citizens

#29

Post by BillFranklin » Thu, Nov 13, 2014, 2:50 PM UTC

abaco wrote: post #13

thisjepisje wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Middelvinger. But seriously, got some more info on these European services? I don't watch these matters very closely lately, would be interested in looking into it.

I am italian, would be surprise if a member of our government is even able to switch on a computer. But I know that in Germany (for example) this problem is a big thing http://www.zdnet.com/worried-about-your-email-security-in-ge... http://www.bohnen-kallmorgen.com/root/index.php?page_id=123

In Germany the privacy laws are incredibly strict but fair to consumers rather than corporations.

Re: It’s time to extend the US Privacy Act to EU citizens

#30

Post by adventured » Thu, Nov 13, 2014, 2:52 PM UTC

Tombone5 wrote: post #22

adventured wrote: post #20

It's often claimed that politics in the US is run by / dominated by corporations. I find the contradiction in that claim at times like this to be especially dramatic. The biggest corporations in America - Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc - are actively being harmed by the US Government. US telecoms are having the doors shut to business in Europe and Asia, because of this stuff. Countless billions in pr…

The wonky thing being that they would have to pay tax on that money if they take it to the US, but they've already made all that effort not to pay tax on the income in the country of origin! (sad face)

It's part of the absurdity that is the US tax code.

I think it was Bill Clinton (among countless others) that elaborated how the obvious thing to do, is to compress the corporate tax rate down to close to 20%, and eliminate most of the tax gaming (simplification).

We could continue to tax corporations at a reasonably competitive rate (vs the rest of the world), simplify the tax code drastically, and keep tax revenue approximately the same. That we can't seem to do something so obvious, which has lots of support from both parties, draws a pretty big sad face from me.