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Demystifying the MOOC

nytimes.com

21–29 of 29 posts

Re: Demystifying the MOOC

#21

It's not MOOCs that depend on mystification -- it's traditional universities. Whether for-profit or non-profit, these are institutions that rake in upwards of $50k per year per student in exchange for mostly worthless seminars on art history and communications. The only way they get away with this incredible fraud is that the fading mystique of a bachelor's degree (and increasingly the mystique of master's and doctor…

I don't think I've ever seen a post that uses "politically correct" unironically and is worth reading.

Re: Demystifying the MOOC

#22
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "constraints of college" are a key part of what makes education work. Deadlines are an anti-procrastination device. This is rarely acknowledged.

Yeah, deadlines definitely help. Additionally, the synchronization helps in terms of discussing the material.

I think course materials should be there forever, sometimes being improved in some places, and discussion/reviews should be there forever as well.

So like a forum about a specific topic with learning materials available at all times. No deadlines, just people collaborating to improve each other's knowledge.

Re: Demystifying the MOOC

#23

It's not MOOCs that depend on mystification -- it's traditional universities. Whether for-profit or non-profit, these are institutions that rake in upwards of $50k per year per student in exchange for mostly worthless seminars on art history and communications. The only way they get away with this incredible fraud is that the fading mystique of a bachelor's degree (and increasingly the mystique of master's and doctor…

Excellent take down. I'd also like to add that Mr. Selingo's paragraph here is so disingenuous that it can not be considered anything but a blatant lie: > A second problem is that when MOOCs replace traditional courses, an extremely high number of students fail. A well-publicized experiment backed by Gov. Jerry Brown of California at San Jose State University flopped. In one of the MOOCs, just 25 percent of students…

Isn't there a statistical issue akin to mortality being swung by massive infant mortality.

The barrier to entry to MOOCs is very low (submit your email address, for example), whilst the barrier to entry to traditional courses is high (pay large amounts of money and often move home too).

Many people will, I imagine, sign up for MOOCs but fail early, within the first couple of weeks. There's a similar thing in multi-year university courses I think, some will fail their first year, those that make it through that will have a far higher rate of success.

The lower risk/barrier to entry is part of the reason to offer MOOCs IMO, you're enabling many people to try tertiary education for whom the risk-reward analysis is simply too adverse otherwise.

Surely provided MOOCs enable more people to acquire a given educational level they are working, whether that is cost effective or not I guess is the question to ask then.

Re: Demystifying the MOOC

#24
I think the author's criticisms are mostly invalid (see Chevalier's comment for a great takedown). With MOOCs, I worry more about these things instead: 1) MOOCs lack the social/deadline pressure to get people to finish their work, and 2) people learn by doing things actively, which is much harder to encourage over the internet.

For 1, as a person with ADHD I struggle to get work done. The deadlines and social pressure to meet them are sometimes the only thing forcing me to actually do work. If people formed local communities to push each other to finish their MOOCs, that would help, but this isn't built-in to MOOCs directly like it's built-in to traditional universities.

For 2, I think people only learn when actively doing something. Passively listening to a lecture does nothing; the lecture only becomes knowledge when you think about it or use it in some way. Active learning exercises are harder to build in to MOOCs because one of the best ways of evaluating learning - having someone "qualified" look at your work and provide feedback - isn't scalable. Multiple-choice questions are too easily gamed and rarely encourage deep thinking. Things like discussions, or iterative feedback on problem-solving, or essay critiques are much more useful, but again, not easily scalable.

It might be that forums where other students critique your work or help you through difficult assignments could be a good substitute. But maybe not. I'm a teaching assistant for a computer science department, and it's difficult to encourage a student in just a right way to help them get the answer for themself. It's tempting to just give out the answer, which isn't helpful for the student but is much easier for me. The collective wisdom of a forum might not be a good substitute for the subtle patience of a professor.

However, neither of these concerns mean we shouldn't pursue MOOCs. I want MOOCs to one day be a complete substitute for a university education. But to do that, concerns like these will need to be addressed.

Re: Demystifying the MOOC

#25

It's not MOOCs that depend on mystification -- it's traditional universities. Whether for-profit or non-profit, these are institutions that rake in upwards of $50k per year per student in exchange for mostly worthless seminars on art history and communications. The only way they get away with this incredible fraud is that the fading mystique of a bachelor's degree (and increasingly the mystique of master's and doctor…

I'd elaborate on your 3rd point: some administrative units that are coordinating MOOCs underestimate the amount of time needed to plan, construct, and iteratively develop a truly excellent experience. The outcome is more or less predictable. I think a MOOC might probably be more like an iterative project (with bug fixes, updates to reflect new information, changes to reflect better explanations, etc.) -- it's not rea…

The Art History course I took was great ... but then again it was in the '80s and race, gender and class (or colonialism) weren't its major food groups; hmmm, the professor wasn't young.

Re: Demystifying the MOOC

#26

It's not MOOCs that depend on mystification -- it's traditional universities. Whether for-profit or non-profit, these are institutions that rake in upwards of $50k per year per student in exchange for mostly worthless seminars on art history and communications. The only way they get away with this incredible fraud is that the fading mystique of a bachelor's degree (and increasingly the mystique of master's and doctor…

Regarding #2, it's not a '"whitey is bad" mindset' to say that if your goal is to expand access to education, and you're primarily reaching people who manifestly already have access, then you're failing at your goal.

Re: Demystifying the MOOC

#27
post #5

It's not MOOCs that depend on mystification -- it's traditional universities. Whether for-profit or non-profit, these are institutions that rake in upwards of $50k per year per student in exchange for mostly worthless seminars on art history and communications. The only way they get away with this incredible fraud is that the fading mystique of a bachelor's degree (and increasingly the mystique of master's and doctor…

Your comment is one of the best deconstructions of common criticisms of the potential of MOOCs that I've read. If you pastebin it (or add it to your blog if you have one) and submit it, I think it would be worthy of its own discussion. It's certainly more informed than the parent article.

Well, thank you. It's quite flattering to be praised at HN... but now that it's the morning after, I cringe at my post's unclear language and incomplete arguments.

There's a very real possibility that I'll take up a 40-50 hour/week job by summer 2015, which means I'll have time to read neglected books, study wishlisted MOOCs, and maybe even write something worth publication and discussion.

Re: Demystifying the MOOC

#28

It's not MOOCs that depend on mystification -- it's traditional universities. Whether for-profit or non-profit, these are institutions that rake in upwards of $50k per year per student in exchange for mostly worthless seminars on art history and communications. The only way they get away with this incredible fraud is that the fading mystique of a bachelor's degree (and increasingly the mystique of master's and doctor…

Excellent take down. I'd also like to add that Mr. Selingo's paragraph here is so disingenuous that it can not be considered anything but a blatant lie: > A second problem is that when MOOCs replace traditional courses, an extremely high number of students fail. A well-publicized experiment backed by Gov. Jerry Brown of California at San Jose State University flopped. In one of the MOOCs, just 25 percent of students…

Wow, I had no idea. I assumed, as pbhjpbhj wrote, that MOOCs' high incompletion rate was due to the complete absence of barriers to entry. I've enrolled in dozens of MOOC courses to have access to their course archives in the future, contributing to the "failure" ratio.

Completion is already an extremely suspect metric by which to grade MOOCs, but it's particularly dishonest when you depend on expulsion-level populations. As most anti-MOOC arguments depend crucially on the San Jose study as evidence that lectures must be live and artisanal to work, I expect to refer back to your post quite often in the near future. Thanks for the heads up!

Re: Demystifying the MOOC

#29
post #11
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've taken a few courses, but "failed" all of them. I don't understand why the courses are designed from the constraints of college life and not the possibilities of Internet?

The "constraints of college" are a key part of what makes education work. Deadlines are an anti-procrastination device. This is rarely acknowledged.

But when you are out of school, you have a lot of time constraints that you cannot afford to break. Forcing me to finish something before some deadline does not make me learn better; it only deprives me of the chance to learn.
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