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Friends Don't Let Friends Clap on One and Three: A Backbeat Clapping Study

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Re: Friends Don't Let Friends Clap on One and Three: A Backbeat Clapping Study

#21

Post by thangalin »

DanBC wrote: post #16
thangalin wrote: post #9

The following blog post provides examples of swung beats and clapping, as it pertains to dancing: http://vixswingjazz.wordpress.com/2013/03/18/can-you-hear-th... A few songs are missing from the page: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFtNC8BwKI0 (Dinah; NSFW) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YqDbd6pUC0 (Everything is Jumping) To get a feel for clapping on the even beats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_WZenJnT8M (Sh…

I play the Lavender Coffin track. I listen to it carefully. I replay it and try to clap on the claps. I fail. I try again. I still fail. I listen to the song again. I replay the track, but this time try to tap my finger (which is easier than clapping) and I still fail. Will it get easier or am I just "beatdeaf"? (Here I can clearly hear the 1 2 3 4, and the claps, but I just cannot match the claps on 2 and 4.)

Try these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REzz-My2PoI#t=100

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Joo90ZWrUkU#t=20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Tiz6INF7I

It takes practice. Newer dancers clap on 1 & 3 until they learn. Sometimes all it takes is for someone to clap quite loudly (almost passively-aggressively so) on the 2 & 4 for the rest of the people to shift over.

Re: Friends Don't Let Friends Clap on One and Three: A Backbeat Clapping Study

#22

Post by protonfish »

tmm wrote: post #7
spenuke wrote: post #3

Duke Ellington routinely gave his audiences a lesson in his inimitable style: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPcZ5ex2t-g Harry Connick Jr. didn't bother educating his European audience with any explanation. He simply skips a beat, and then they're clapping on 2 and 4. It happens after the first sung chorus. You can see the drummer raise his hands in joy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD3iaURppQw And, of course, th…

How can you tell he skips a beat? Or for that matter the difference between beats 1 and 3 vs 2 and 4? Music is such a mystery to me. :/

You know how the rhythm to "We Will Rock You" by Queen goes

    Stomp Stomp Clap, Stomp Stomp Clap
The "Claps" are on 2 and 4, the first stomps of the pairs are on 1 and 3. Now imagine some boob wearing his sunglasses like a hat and a popped collar starts clapping on 1 and 3:

    Stomp Stomp Clap, Stomp Stomp Clap
    Clap              Clap
That'd be annoying. The looks on Harry Connick Jr.'s face before he fixes the clapping tell it all.

Re: Friends Don't Let Friends Clap on One and Three: A Backbeat Clapping Study

#23

Post by andrewchoi »

spenuke wrote: post #3

Duke Ellington routinely gave his audiences a lesson in his inimitable style: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPcZ5ex2t-g Harry Connick Jr. didn't bother educating his European audience with any explanation. He simply skips a beat, and then they're clapping on 2 and 4. It happens after the first sung chorus. You can see the drummer raise his hands in joy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD3iaURppQw And, of course, th…

The switch happens around the 0:40 mark, for those who may have thought that they missed it (as I almost did)

Re: Friends Don't Let Friends Clap on One and Three: A Backbeat Clapping Study

#24

Post by dnautics »

actually the notion that european music is "harmonically rich and rhythmically unsophisticated" is incorrect; it's relatively modern phenomenon that the rhythms in european music were simplified. Traditional eastern european rhythms are incredibly complex and western european liturgical and vernacular music tended to have complex ryhthms until around the 16-17th century.

IIRC this was basically an effect of the church decided to try to monopolize music in the service of liturgy and "dumb down" the music so that everyone could participate in hymnals, etc.

This could also partially be a result of music printing; it's harder to notate complex rhythms - if you've ever sung medieval music that's pushed into modern notation, sometimes wierd things happen, like time signatures that don't quite line up with the all of the music lines because polyphony is going on; invasions of 3/4 measures in an otherwise 2/4 song, etc.

Re: Friends Don't Let Friends Clap on One and Three: A Backbeat Clapping Study

#25

Post by conitpicker »

rlucas wrote: post #18

My circle of friends used to joke about the "Republican Test." You administer it like this: play the song "I Heard It Through the Grapevine," ideally the Marvin Gaye version, and ask the subject to "clap along with the music" however he or she feels. Our unscientific observations showed a high correlation with 1/3 clapping and being old, square, uptight, or an alien from an unfunky and obsolete dying planet.

I bet Lee Atwater would have failed that test..

Re: Friends Don't Let Friends Clap on One and Three: A Backbeat Clapping Study

#26

Post by dnautics »

DanBC wrote: post #16
thangalin wrote: post #9

The following blog post provides examples of swung beats and clapping, as it pertains to dancing: http://vixswingjazz.wordpress.com/2013/03/18/can-you-hear-th... A few songs are missing from the page: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFtNC8BwKI0 (Dinah; NSFW) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YqDbd6pUC0 (Everything is Jumping) To get a feel for clapping on the even beats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_WZenJnT8M (Sh…

I play the Lavender Coffin track. I listen to it carefully. I replay it and try to clap on the claps. I fail. I try again. I still fail. I listen to the song again. I replay the track, but this time try to tap my finger (which is easier than clapping) and I still fail. Will it get easier or am I just "beatdeaf"? (Here I can clearly hear the 1 2 3 4, and the claps, but I just cannot match the claps on 2 and 4.)

Having been clasically trained, it took me about 6 months of swing dancing to be able to clap on 2 and 4. Part of the reason why you clap on 2 and 4 is that you're 'kicking' energy into the next measure. It helps to do 'something else' on 1 and 3, like make a vocal sound, or tap with your foot.

Re: Friends Don't Let Friends Clap on One and Three: A Backbeat Clapping Study

#27

Post by ezy »

tmm wrote: post #7
spenuke wrote: post #3

Duke Ellington routinely gave his audiences a lesson in his inimitable style: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPcZ5ex2t-g Harry Connick Jr. didn't bother educating his European audience with any explanation. He simply skips a beat, and then they're clapping on 2 and 4. It happens after the first sung chorus. You can see the drummer raise his hands in joy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD3iaURppQw And, of course, th…

How can you tell he skips a beat? Or for that matter the difference between beats 1 and 3 vs 2 and 4? Music is such a mystery to me. :/

Beats me. (pause)

I could hear no difference before or after the switch -- in fact I couldn't hear any beat other than the clapping.

Re: Friends Don't Let Friends Clap on One and Three: A Backbeat Clapping Study

#28

Post by smeyer »

teen wrote: post #8
tmm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you tell he skips a beat? Or for that matter the difference between beats 1 and 3 vs 2 and 4? Music is such a mystery to me. :/

You know how in every electronic song the beat is going: Boom CLAP Boom CLAP Boom CLAP? The idea is that you clap on the CLAP sound (snare drum), not the boom (bass drum). 1 (bass) 2 (snare) 3 (bass) 4 (snare). To skip a beat you'd probably play the rhythm for a bit normally, then leave out all the bass drum kicks so that the audience only hears the snares. Then that would be the only thing they could clap to. Then y…

>To skip a beat you'd probably play the rhythm for a bit normally, then leave out all the bass drum kicks so the audience only hears the snares....then put the bass back in

While this might get your audience to switch over, this is trying to get your audience to skip (or add) a beat, rather than skipping or adding a beat oneself. You never actually described skipping a beat.

Re: Friends Don't Let Friends Clap on One and Three: A Backbeat Clapping Study

#29

Post by jldugger »

protonfish wrote: post #22
tmm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you tell he skips a beat? Or for that matter the difference between beats 1 and 3 vs 2 and 4? Music is such a mystery to me. :/

You know how the rhythm to "We Will Rock You" by Queen goes Stomp Stomp Clap, Stomp Stomp Clap The "Claps" are on 2 and 4, the first stomps of the pairs are on 1 and 3. Now imagine some boob wearing his sunglasses like a hat and a popped collar starts clapping on 1 and 3: Stomp Stomp Clap, Stomp Stomp Clap Clap Clap That'd be annoying. The looks on Harry Connick Jr.'s face before he fixes the clapping tell it all.

IMO, that's 3/4 time. Just because it's confusing.

Re: Friends Don't Let Friends Clap on One and Three: A Backbeat Clapping Study

#30

Post by conitpicker »

jldugger wrote: post #29
protonfish wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know how the rhythm to "We Will Rock You" by Queen goes Stomp Stomp Clap, Stomp Stomp Clap The "Claps" are on 2 and 4, the first stomps of the pairs are on 1 and 3. Now imagine some boob wearing his sunglasses like a hat and a popped collar starts clapping on 1 and 3: Stomp Stomp Clap, Stomp Stomp Clap Clap Clap That'd be annoying. The looks on Harry Connick Jr.'s face before he fixes the clapping tell it all.

IMO, that's 3/4 time. Just because it's confusing.

no, it's clearly a duple meter. boom boom clap boom boom clap
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