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Nintendo, One Year Later

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Re: Nintendo, One Year Later

#21

Post by LukasMathis »

ekianjo wrote: post #16
bithush wrote: post #15

In a would where companies just release their old (very successful) games on mobile devices with awful touch screen controls hacked in I am so glad Nintendo do not do that. Sure it would make them some money to sell Mario on the iPhone but god damn is it a horrible experience IMHO. Nintendo have good years and bad years. The Wii U wasn't the success they hoped it would be. But they took a chance with the Gamepad. Tha…

> they do things differently Only the Nintendo of recent years. They were famous for NOT innovating much before. The SNES was just another 16 bits console (albeit quite powerful), the N64 did not even ride on the CD technology, and the Gamecube did not have much points of differentiation versus the Xbox 1 or PS2.

I think this is a little bit revisionist. In hindsight, much of what Nintendo did seems common, because it has become common. Back then, stuff like the rumble pack or the analog stick or a controller that has directional control on both sides actually was innovative.

Re: Nintendo, One Year Later

#22

Post by LukasMathis »

cookiecaper wrote: post #19
bithush wrote: post #15

In a would where companies just release their old (very successful) games on mobile devices with awful touch screen controls hacked in I am so glad Nintendo do not do that. Sure it would make them some money to sell Mario on the iPhone but god damn is it a horrible experience IMHO. Nintendo have good years and bad years. The Wii U wasn't the success they hoped it would be. But they took a chance with the Gamepad. Tha…

The sad thing is that the Wii U's failure is 100% attributable to marketing. The GamePad is actually quite comfortable for normal uses (i.e., situations in which games do not include contrived "Look at me ma, I'm using the GamePad!" moments, which are too frequent) and I like it more than I expected to. Most of the people I ask don't even realize that that the Wii U is different than the Wii. They think it's just a g…

I think it is party due to marketing, but I don't think that's the only issue with the Wii U. Other issues include the fact that there's no killer game that explains why the new controller is really needed (most games just mirror the TV to the controller, or show inventory or a map on the controller), the fact that there's only one controller with a screen, so most games that use it have asymmetric offline multiplayer gameplay (which can be difficult to explain to people), and the fact that playing the Wii U doesn't look as much fun as playing bowling or tennis on the Wii did.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Wii U is a console worth owning, and right now, it probably has the best games library of all current-gen TV consoles. I also think that poor marketing and misguiding naming play a role in its poor performance — why not call it the Wii 2, to clearly show that it is different and new?

But I don't think that its failure can be attributed solely to marketing.

Re: Nintendo, One Year Later

#23

Post by paublyrne »

ekianjo wrote: post #16
bithush wrote: post #15

In a would where companies just release their old (very successful) games on mobile devices with awful touch screen controls hacked in I am so glad Nintendo do not do that. Sure it would make them some money to sell Mario on the iPhone but god damn is it a horrible experience IMHO. Nintendo have good years and bad years. The Wii U wasn't the success they hoped it would be. But they took a chance with the Gamepad. Tha…

> they do things differently Only the Nintendo of recent years. They were famous for NOT innovating much before. The SNES was just another 16 bits console (albeit quite powerful), the N64 did not even ride on the CD technology, and the Gamecube did not have much points of differentiation versus the Xbox 1 or PS2.

I'm not sure that's really fair.

- Nintendo experimented with a CD add on (with Sony) for the SNES. It eventually became the Playstation. - They released the Double Density Drive addon for N64 (probably a failure). - Mario 64 was the first really 3D platformer, and was groundbreaking. - The weird looking controller for the N64 had an analogue stick before anyone else. - Rumble packs - N64 came with four ports for four-way split screens

They're just off the top of my head.

Re: Nintendo, One Year Later

#24

Post by jtruk »

Mario Kart 8 is an curious example to cite. The game was sold with a free download of another game - and choices included many top tier first-party titles. That's a very unusual tactic. It's a great game, but I'm sure this will have been a big driver for sales.

I wonder if the tallies for the other games (e.g. NSMB-U, Nintendoland, Z:WW) include those sold as a pack in, or free download?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_U_vide...

Re: Nintendo, One Year Later

#25

Post by randall »

paublyrne wrote: post #23
ekianjo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they do things differently Only the Nintendo of recent years. They were famous for NOT innovating much before. The SNES was just another 16 bits console (albeit quite powerful), the N64 did not even ride on the CD technology, and the Gamecube did not have much points of differentiation versus the Xbox 1 or PS2.

I'm not sure that's really fair. - Nintendo experimented with a CD add on (with Sony) for the SNES. It eventually became the Playstation. - They released the Double Density Drive addon for N64 (probably a failure). - Mario 64 was the first really 3D platformer, and was groundbreaking. - The weird looking controller for the N64 had an analogue stick before anyone else. - Rumble packs - N64 came with four ports for fou…

Sony and Sega both released analog stick-ish controllers before Nintendo, fwiw. They might have spurred it though by showing it off really early. Which is also probably why the "revolution" aka Wii's control scheme took so long to be revealed.

Re: Nintendo, One Year Later

#26

Post by LukasMathis »

rocky1138 wrote: post #13
jzelinskie wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly certain that Nintendo is simply scared to release their IP on a platform that they do not control. The last (and only) time they did was the Phillips CDI which they now entirely cease to acknowledge. That and the fact that their IP drives the sales of their hardware.

CDI may have been the last time they released their IP on a platform they do not control, but they have done this more than once. An example would be Mario Bros. and Donkey Kong for the Atari 2600.

Nintendo also released PC software, e.g. Mario Teaches Typing. And they've released a Pokédex for iOS.

Re: Nintendo, One Year Later

#27

Post by LukasMathis »

jtruk wrote: post #24

Mario Kart 8 is an curious example to cite. The game was sold with a free download of another game - and choices included many top tier first-party titles. That's a very unusual tactic. It's a great game, but I'm sure this will have been a big driver for sales. I wonder if the tallies for the other games (e.g. NSMB-U, Nintendoland, Z:WW) include those sold as a pack in, or free download? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

You're right, I forgot about the fact that it was "bundled" with an additional game. Personally, I only found out about this after I bought it; I'm not sure how much the bundling helped Mario Kart's game sales. But it's a fair point.

I didn't want to pick Nintendo Land because the way it was sold is not entirely straightforward. For example, some copies were bundled with a controller.

I didn't want to use NSMB or 3D World as examples because Mario platformers are often outliers when it comes to sales. I guess The Wind Waker HD would have been a good example, because it sold really well despite being an HD remake of an older game.

Re: Nintendo, One Year Later

#28

Post by mcphage »

> I think it’s fair for Apple writers to complain about the fact that a lot of people who have no clue about how Apple’s business works make crazy pronouncements about what Apple should do. But I do think that they should measure their own expertise by the same yardstick.

John Gruber is very guilty of this. He understands Apple very well, knows how they work, and how they think. But every time he discusses Nintendo, I see the same mistaken thinking about the company that, were a similar mistake made about Apple, would earn a "filed for future claim chowder". Like Apple, Nintendo does things differently than its competitors. But that doesn't mean that they do things similarly; nor do they face the same challenges.

Re: Nintendo, One Year Later

#29

Post by bhhaskin »

cookiecaper wrote: post #19
bithush wrote: post #15

In a would where companies just release their old (very successful) games on mobile devices with awful touch screen controls hacked in I am so glad Nintendo do not do that. Sure it would make them some money to sell Mario on the iPhone but god damn is it a horrible experience IMHO. Nintendo have good years and bad years. The Wii U wasn't the success they hoped it would be. But they took a chance with the Gamepad. Tha…

The sad thing is that the Wii U's failure is 100% attributable to marketing. The GamePad is actually quite comfortable for normal uses (i.e., situations in which games do not include contrived "Look at me ma, I'm using the GamePad!" moments, which are too frequent) and I like it more than I expected to. Most of the people I ask don't even realize that that the Wii U is different than the Wii. They think it's just a g…

I think you are right. Nintendo mainly makes products for the Japanese market. They might change a few things for an over seas release, but for the most part it is all for the Japanese market.

Re: Nintendo, One Year Later

#30

Post by whoisthemachine »

ekianjo wrote: post #16
bithush wrote: post #15

In a would where companies just release their old (very successful) games on mobile devices with awful touch screen controls hacked in I am so glad Nintendo do not do that. Sure it would make them some money to sell Mario on the iPhone but god damn is it a horrible experience IMHO. Nintendo have good years and bad years. The Wii U wasn't the success they hoped it would be. But they took a chance with the Gamepad. Tha…

> they do things differently Only the Nintendo of recent years. They were famous for NOT innovating much before. The SNES was just another 16 bits console (albeit quite powerful), the N64 did not even ride on the CD technology, and the Gamecube did not have much points of differentiation versus the Xbox 1 or PS2.

From what I can tell, the NES controller was the first gamepad to be used on a major console[1].

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamepad#Third_Generation

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