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How bad is the California drought?

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: How bad is the California drought?

#21

Post by dkokelley »

It is very frustrating to me that we are dealing with such significant drought, while most of us Californians live within 100 miles of the ocean. Using that water seems like the answer. The problem with desalination is that it's an expensive solution to a sometimes problem.

http://www.wateronline.com/doc/santa-barbara-to-reboot-desal...

Santa Barbara built and then shut down an expensive desalination plant in the early 1990's. Desalination is expensive, and when water is abundant, it is more cost effective to use natural water sources than run an expensive plant. A desalination solution must be designed to be inexpensive and easily hibernated/restarted. That way, the state could effortlessly switch between whichever water supply was most abundant.

Re: How bad is the California drought?

#22

Post by Terr_ »

meeks wrote: post #17
jedberg wrote: post #8

It's bad. I recently drove to LA through the central valley, and in 18 years of doing that drive, I've never seen it so dry. Whole farms are just gone, everything is brown. There are a couple of problems preventing us from saving more water though. #1, we had a drought in the 80s. A lot of people learned to conserve then and never changed their habits (like me). There is no way I could use 20% less water -- I already…

The number 1 way to conserve water is to eat less meat. I don't think that people have learned this yet and most people have not changed their habits to consume less meat. Serious question: why is it acceptable to change all kinds of behaviors, take shorter showers, fix leaks, turn off taps, and even install gray water systems, yet not change our behavior to eat less meat? If you didn't eat beef for one day (1/2 lb b…

> The number 1 way to conserve water is to eat less meat.

Sure, but that's more of a global issue than a local one, insofar as meat (and food for livestock) is shipped much further than water is.

Re: How bad is the California drought?

#23

Post by Cyther606 »

If you want to understand the drought conditions better, I implore you to watch this Ted talk by environment scientist David Keith:

http://www.ted.com/talks/david_keith_s_surprising_ideas_on_c...

To sum it up, governments are engaged in cloud seeding to fight climate change, and they're staying silent on the issue because informing the public is a moral hazard.

As a side effect of cloud seeding, certain areas are bound to develop less rain clouds. This causes drought conditions.

Spraying chemical compounds over populated areas also has environmental impacts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4WhYKP83zo

"On July 15th, 2014, citizens from Northern California rallied to create the largest attendance ever at the Shasta County Supervisors chambers (400+, chairman Les Baugh confirmed this attendance record at the start of the meeting). The primary purpose of this meeting was to present information that proves there is a very dire heavy metal contamination and UV radiation issue across the Shasta County region (and the world). A list of 10 experts presented data to the board to confirm the legitimacy of the concerns being addressed. At the end of the presentation, the board voted unanimously to investigate the heavy metal contamination and passed resolutions accordingly."

Re: How bad is the California drought?

#24

Post by melvinmt »

jedberg wrote: post #10
byoung2 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last month, 3 of my neighbors have removed their lawns in favor of rockscape or mulch. LADWP is offering $3 per square foot if you remove your lawn, so that is encouraging people.

They're doing that here in the bay area too. My question is, do I have to have grass to count as a lawn? I stopped watering my lawn the day I bought the house, so at this point it is just dirt. Can I still the the $3/sqft to put in turf?

"I stopped watering my lawn the day I bought the house"

In some cities, not watering your lawn may get you a fine too: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-brown-lawns-...

Re: How bad is the California drought?

#26

Post by hollerith »

mmagin wrote: post #5

So, uh, why would anyone bulldoze dead almond trees if they're not going to replace them with another crop yet? Seems like it would just increase soil erosion problems.

I'm guessing that the almond farmers know what they're doing.

Maybe dead trees encourage diseases that attack live trees.

Re: How bad is the California drought?

#27

Post by akoncius »

spikels wrote: post #18
function_seven wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I don't get about the way this is being handled. Instead of threatening $500 fines for people whose neighbors rat them out, why don't they price water to its true cost¹? I guarantee consumption would plummet if the consumer had to pay for it. ¹Sure, there probably still needs to be variances for residential vs. agricultural use, and tier 1 vs. 2+, etc.

Domestic water is probably overpriced not underpriced. It's the farmers who pay way too little (often zero!) for water. This has created screwed up incentives for farmers. Many crops are worth less than the true cost of the water needed to grow them! This is what happens when you have a system driven by politics and not the market - it's prone to lose touch with reality (actual cost/value). Unfortunately it will be v…

food industry should be partly subsidized by government, otherwise country could end up in trouble when people don't get enough neccessary basic food and stuff

Re: How bad is the California drought?

#28

Post by epicureanideal »

Are we not able to desalinate water? No doubt some special interests are preventing us from solving this problem. Access to plentiful, cheap water has not been a first world problem in a very long time. Just authorize the building permits and a contract to buy water sufficient to make it profitable, and this problem will be solved quickly.

Re: How bad is the California drought?

#29

Post by liber8 »

dkokelley wrote: post #21

It is very frustrating to me that we are dealing with such significant drought, while most of us Californians live within 100 miles of the ocean. Using that water seems like the answer. The problem with desalination is that it's an expensive solution to a sometimes problem. http://www.wateronline.com/doc/santa-barbara-to-reboot-desal... Santa Barbara built and then shut down an expensive desalination plant in the ear…

As with nearly all of our problems, California's water shortage is really an energy shortage. If we had cheap, abundant energy, desalinization isn't expensive anymore.

Figure out fusion and our water problems are solved.

Of course, in the meantime you think we'd at least consider pricing water as a resource and let supply and demand control the price. Instead, we implement this ludicrous system of encouraging neighbors to tattle on each other.

Re: How bad is the California drought?

#30

Post by NamTaf »

It reminds me of some years ago when the last major drought hit Australia [1]. We had dams down to ridiculously low capacities (about 15% total supply for certain urban areas, with individual dams getting to single digits if I recall correctly) at times. An entire generation got used to fast showers as the government actually circulated little 4 minute egg-timers to encourage everyone to take no more than that in having a shower.

I think many of the laws enacted then around use of water (e.g.: for car washes, lawns, etc.) are still tighter than they were prior to the drought, but everyone's sort of used to being more water wise now so it doesn't really bother us.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000s_Australian_drought

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