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Behind League of Legends, E-Sports’s Main Attraction

nytimes.com

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Re: Behind League of Legends, E-Sports’s Main Attraction

#21
I no longer play, but I still watch the pro teams from time to time. One of the things that has impressed me the most about Riot's approach has been their willingness to make dramatic modifications to core game mechanics in an effort to keep games exciting for both players and spectators.

An example that indicates the difference between last year's world championship games and this year's is the ward system. Wards are items that a player can place near their current location, invisible to the enemy team, to gain vision into the fog of war, which is vital for decreasing risk in map-wide coordinated team strategies. Under the old system, pro teams often bogged down during the mid- and late-game phases as they vied for map vision superiority, and the only viable strategy was to purchase as many of the superior ward type (pink, with green being inferior) as possible and equip at least one player with a long-term ability to see invisible elements. Under the new system, both green and pink wards are valuable — the former are invisible to enemies and time-limited, the latter are visible to enemies but can detect invisible elements and are not time-limited — and all players have access to a periodic ability to place an extra ward or shut down enemy wards. As a result, the action in this year's matches has been much more consistent, as teams can still angle for vision control without losing momentum.

Just today, I saw some rough notes (http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gamepla...) on changes being tested in public beta. The scope of changes is massive! Starting stats, behavior of towers, and the range of temporary buffs are all on the table for a major revamp. It would be really easy for Riot to resist improving their game under the excuse of "this is the way we've always done it", but they continue to push and innovate from within. A great example of keeping a startup mentality alive within an established company!

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On another note more closely related to the posted article: for anyone that doesn't already watch pro-level League of Legends and is interested based on this article, you can follow the remainder of the current world championship matches through http://na.lolesports.com — the next best-of-five between two Samsung-sponsored teams should be very exciting. Past matches are available via http://na.lolesports.com/vods/league/worlds and I would highly recommend the Fnatic vs. OMG game from the group stages (direct link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O345c46mFqY).

Re: Behind League of Legends, E-Sports’s Main Attraction

#22
post #8

I played long hours of counter strike, warcraft 3, wow, quake, starcraft 2, and I never liked the original dota map nor LoL. I just think it's a bad mix of several games. The level format doesn't make a lot of sense. It has the disadvantages of a RTS while being some sort of a RPG (little or no persistence), doesn't have a solo mode, and doesn't even allow to control more than 1 unit. It's slow and boring. The conten…

One of the reasons people find DOTA-likes so unlikeable is the incredibly steep learning curve. It is often said that you know nothing about LoL or DOTA until you've played 1000 games. At around 45 minutes a pop, that means you've got to commit way more time than most people have available in order to get good. The games are more like basketball than Quake. 5 on 5, and if 1 player on a team is bad, that team will pro…

To be a top notch player, yes. Honestly my brother & I were having a lot of fun the first night we played LoL. Now going back and showing someone new is painful because you realize how much knowledge was accumulated over the years. But either way, it can still be fun.

Re: Behind League of Legends, E-Sports’s Main Attraction

#23
post #19
post #8

I played long hours of counter strike, warcraft 3, wow, quake, starcraft 2, and I never liked the original dota map nor LoL. I just think it's a bad mix of several games. The level format doesn't make a lot of sense. It has the disadvantages of a RTS while being some sort of a RPG (little or no persistence), doesn't have a solo mode, and doesn't even allow to control more than 1 unit. It's slow and boring. The conten…

LoL was hugely successful long before it eclipsed other esports. It was successful because a very large number of people played it, your dislike for it notwithstanding. I didn't like Twilight, but I can't really question that its popularity is legitimate.

You're right. It's definitely a popular (and I'm sure profitable) game. And I don't think OPs comment really belongs in this thread, but like him, because it's a bad game, I lament (maybe irrationally?) that it's so popular.

Re: Behind League of Legends, E-Sports’s Main Attraction

#24
post #21

I no longer play, but I still watch the pro teams from time to time. One of the things that has impressed me the most about Riot's approach has been their willingness to make dramatic modifications to core game mechanics in an effort to keep games exciting for both players and spectators. An example that indicates the difference between last year's world championship games and this year's is the ward system. Wards ar…

I don't know if you are familiar with DoTA, but can you comment on why DoTA doesn't seem to have the problem with games stalling as players fight for vision control? I believe the DoTA ward model is very similar to the original LoL ward model.

Re: Behind League of Legends, E-Sports’s Main Attraction

#25
While LoL is by far the more popular game, I find what Valve is doing with Dota to be more interesting. They're heavily investing in the spectator portion of the sport, and it's paying off in spades. They've added in the ability to watch replays, see instant-replays during live games (especially useful when the casters miss a battle off screen), see post-battle stats, and view player analytics all in-client.

The article mentions that Riot lost money in hosting The World Championship, but during The International (the Dota 2 equivalent), Valve made over $30 million from selling interactive playbills for the tournament. Twitch has become a huge part of the events as well, but I think it's telling that Valve is strategically moving forward with trying to make viewing the game just as important as playing the game. Esports as a spectator sport is definitely going to become much bigger moving forward (LoL's World Championship already has more viewers than baseball's World Series, and in Dota 2 to win more money than a superbowl winner you'd only have to take third place in The International). I suspect that we'll see Esports taking over physical sports in terms of numbers in the next decade or so.

Re: Behind League of Legends, E-Sports’s Main Attraction

#26
post #8

I played long hours of counter strike, warcraft 3, wow, quake, starcraft 2, and I never liked the original dota map nor LoL. I just think it's a bad mix of several games. The level format doesn't make a lot of sense. It has the disadvantages of a RTS while being some sort of a RPG (little or no persistence), doesn't have a solo mode, and doesn't even allow to control more than 1 unit. It's slow and boring. The conten…

One of the reasons people find DOTA-likes so unlikeable is the incredibly steep learning curve. It is often said that you know nothing about LoL or DOTA until you've played 1000 games. At around 45 minutes a pop, that means you've got to commit way more time than most people have available in order to get good. The games are more like basketball than Quake. 5 on 5, and if 1 player on a team is bad, that team will pro…

Of course, real life sports take tons of practice too before you can have much fun. A total beginner can't just pick up a tennis racquet or basketball and start volleying or shooting hoops.

Making a game/sport that is rewarding at the pro level and also has no learning curve- does such a game even exist, electronic or not?

Re: Behind League of Legends, E-Sports’s Main Attraction

#27
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is LoL moddable vi Lua? Oh yeah! I don't know about now though, it sure used to be. I didn't do anything fancy, just some basic bot automation and a couple miscellaneous chatbox-based addons (mostly for spamming) but it got me learning Lua. Edit: Looks like LoL is still moddable via Lua[0] 0. http://leaguebot.net/

Is that officially allowed? Or do you risk a ban by using a tool like that? I'm guessing it's not since it's a paid product?

It's a cheat. Bannable.

Re: Behind League of Legends, E-Sports’s Main Attraction

#28
post #21

I no longer play, but I still watch the pro teams from time to time. One of the things that has impressed me the most about Riot's approach has been their willingness to make dramatic modifications to core game mechanics in an effort to keep games exciting for both players and spectators. An example that indicates the difference between last year's world championship games and this year's is the ward system. Wards ar…

I don't know if you are familiar with DoTA, but can you comment on why DoTA doesn't seem to have the problem with games stalling as players fight for vision control? I believe the DoTA ward model is very similar to the original LoL ward model.

Vision choices are more limited, access to team stealth is just an item away.

However, I would say that Dota still has a problem with stalling, maybe even more than League of Legends. There are often one-sided games that drag on for quite a long time before the winning team has a decisive enough advantage to actually finish the game. This comes from a few features, foremost 'buyback' which lets players come back from the dead before their timer expires for a fee, which means that even if you kill their entire team inside their base, unless you have the force to kill them all again, you usually cannot take any ground.

Re: Behind League of Legends, E-Sports’s Main Attraction

#29
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if you are familiar with DoTA, but can you comment on why DoTA doesn't seem to have the problem with games stalling as players fight for vision control? I believe the DoTA ward model is very similar to the original LoL ward model.

Vision choices are more limited, access to team stealth is just an item away. However, I would say that Dota still has a problem with stalling, maybe even more than League of Legends. There are often one-sided games that drag on for quite a long time before the winning team has a decisive enough advantage to actually finish the game. This comes from a few features, foremost 'buyback' which lets players come back from…

DoTA games definitely stall, part of which I think has to do with a desire by the developers to avoid "freak" outcomes- it's rare to be able to win in DoTA with only a small advantage, so even if it is pretty obvious who is going to win they have to build up their advantage to end the game. Most of the time it's frustrating, although the extra time sometimes leads to incredible turnabouts.

I am most curious about the ward aspect, specifically. Are you saying DoTA has less vision choices? And you are referencing smoke?

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