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Trouble at the Koolaid Point

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Re: Trouble at the Koolaid Point

#21

Post by pmjordan »

rjknight wrote: post #19
pmjordan wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh. At the very least, this kind of victim blaming attitude and lack of empathy is presumably exactly the setup for people jumping on the harassment bandwagon without thinking things through. 1. You're pretty much advocating mob rule. Also, are you seriously comparing the threat that internet hate-mongers vs. the NSA poses to the average Joe or Jane with an internet persona? I dislike corporate and government spying…

I didn't see any victim-blaming in that post - the victim is obviously due our full sympathy in each and every case. The question is what to do about it. The OP suggests that we might be able to form better communities, suggesting that the existence of communities in which this kind of thing does not happen proves that it must be possible. The GP appears to disagree, believing that we need technical and legal solutio…

Victim blaming/"they deserve it":

"For the most part, high-profile "targets" from the troll's perspective are already known to the public anyway."

Re: Trouble at the Koolaid Point

#22

Post by scribu »

[deleted] wrote: post #14

[deleted]

I think there are several points:

1. Most people starting out online are not aware that "Your chances of being harassed increases linearly as your popularity." and most people that haven't been abused online themselves don't think it's a serious problem.

2. The ratio of harassment to popularity is not a universal constant; it can be improved.

3. By shedding light on the issue, there is at least a hope that the situation can be improved. If nobody talks about this, then there's no way things can get better. On the contrary, silence would probably make things worse, as trolls would learn that they can get away with it.

Re: Trouble at the Koolaid Point

#24

Post by freshflowers »

jmduke wrote: post #3

This is an excellent, brave thing to write and I originally had a long comment highlighting a bunch of particularly poignant paragraphs that I deleted because really you should just read the entire thing. Neither I nor the vast majority of the people I know have ever been subject to online harassment and it makes me thankful that there are incredible people like Kathy out there. Lord knows I wouldn't have the courage…

Now that you mention Reddit, I've abandoned it because that cesspool is overflowing. It's no longer just the obscure subs, misogynist thrash from mainstream subs is hitting the front page on a daily basis.

Re: Trouble at the Koolaid Point

#25

Post by sheltgor »

jmduke wrote: post #3

This is an excellent, brave thing to write and I originally had a long comment highlighting a bunch of particularly poignant paragraphs that I deleted because really you should just read the entire thing. Neither I nor the vast majority of the people I know have ever been subject to online harassment and it makes me thankful that there are incredible people like Kathy out there. Lord knows I wouldn't have the courage…

I wholeheartedly agree that strong moderation does a LOT to foster strong communities, and frankly very positive ones.

Both of my favorite subreddits do this very well, as does my favorite forum, and though you get the jokes about 'fascist mods' and the genuine complainers who would rather be able to troll to their hearts content (and who inevitably flame out in a couple months time), they are very enjoyable to be a part of. Rather than having inane comments, stupid back and forths, and, in the case of one more factually based subreddit, misleading comments, you get what the majority of well-intentioned people actually come for.

Re: Trouble at the Koolaid Point

#26

Post by DanielBMarkham »

I only have one story of harassment, but it might be interesting.

When I first started blogging, about 10 years ago, I would also post on slashdot.

I started getting a lot of traffic. Along with that, I started getting harassed.

It was some of the vilest stuff I've ever read in an online forum -- attacking me, my family, my personality, and so on. I found it quite disturbing, as if one of my friends was secretly insane.

I finally had to institute blocks. After about 100 blocks, I was able to bring the blog back under control.

At that point, I stopped promoting my blog so much. I was happier just to write for myself.

They say there's always 2% of folks that you're not going to get along with. There's also probably 0.2% of folks who actively wish you harm. On the internet with 2B folks? Those percentages add up big time.

My point is that gender is important here, but I'm not sure it's anywhere near being the entire story.

Re: Trouble at the Koolaid Point

#27

Post by CHsurfer »

[deleted] wrote: post #14

[deleted]

I guess the point is that the system is broken by default and we need many, smart, well-motivated people to fix it. This is what she is pointing out. If people don't understand and accept that it is broken, it won't get fixed.
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