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Mojito island is a mirage

37signals.com

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Re: Mojito island is a mirage

#21

Post by natrius »

iamwil wrote: post #17
tptacek wrote: post #4

The bliss of knowing that your kids college tuition is fully paid for, no matter where they get accepted, is not overrated. Thinking like DHH indulges in this post is a luxury.

Will college tuitions be more than a million or two? Perhaps if the education bubble never bursts. Or if you have more than five kids. Regardless, his article compares owning your own business with a million or two trickling in instead of $40 million (or more) all at once. The comparison isn't at all about the starving artist or inventor doing what he loves vs a big pay out. If you're doing what you like and you're e…

"If you're doing what you like and you're earning a mil or two a year (or well on your way), why sell out all at once for $40 mil?"

Liquidity. Future success is not guaranteed.

I don't think anyone sells their business so they never have to use their brain again, which is the premise of "mojito island."

Re: Mojito island is a mirage

#22

Post by callmeed »

I think this is a good post. I also think the dialog is good for the community.

With this and the related posts here, there seems to be a preoccupation with not working for the man (whoever that is) and not having to work for money. I think it's baloney and I've yet to hear a reasonable argument for this stance.

If you have a startup, you're already not working for the man. If you took VC and you feel they are the man, well ... sorry, no one forced you to do it.

I wonder how many of the critics of this POV have had a growing, profitable startup for more than a year.

Re: Mojito island is a mirage

#23

Post by run4yourlives »

Erm, this certainly isn't one of my favourite 37S posts.

I actually agree with them. I think building a "company" whose sole purpose is to be sold, profitable or not is not as fulfilling as building a company that is a company. I think most of us should be striving to build for long term success.

That being said, even 37S needs to realize that building a company is a lot more fun with $XX million in the bank than it is with $XX thousand. It's certainly a lot more fun to do everything else in your life that way, like raising a family, exploring the world doing whatever else it is that your heart desires.

This is a rather weak post with a weak argument.

Re: Mojito island is a mirage

#24

Post by mseebach »

iamwil wrote: post #17
tptacek wrote: post #4

The bliss of knowing that your kids college tuition is fully paid for, no matter where they get accepted, is not overrated. Thinking like DHH indulges in this post is a luxury.

Will college tuitions be more than a million or two? Perhaps if the education bubble never bursts. Or if you have more than five kids. Regardless, his article compares owning your own business with a million or two trickling in instead of $40 million (or more) all at once. The comparison isn't at all about the starving artist or inventor doing what he loves vs a big pay out. If you're doing what you like and you're e…

> If you're doing what you like and you're earning a mil or two a year (or well on your way), why sell out all at once for $40 mil?

Let's say $2m/year - a sellout now at $40m is 20 years (if we (unrealistically) discount inflation and interest etc.).

You love what you're doing, but who knows what everything's gonna look like in 2-3-4 years, much less 20? Google might decide that DHH is a punk and make improved clones of the entire 37s portfolio and release them for free. 37s may have a breakdown and find out that their backups for the past month are corrupted, and never regain customer confidence. The concept of SAAS/cloud might be compromised by Patriot Acts III-VI. All those are worst-case scenarios, but there are a million other events that could at least compromise the $40m price-point -- so waiting and taking the money later isn't a backup-plan.

If you take your $40m now, you're insured against all that, and also against growing bored with the project and conflicts with co-founders or key employees -- and the buyer just might let you work, even on salary, on the project.

Passion now != passion in 20 years. Actually, I'd venture as far as saying that if you're sure your current passion is going to last, it's not real passion.

Re: Mojito island is a mirage

#25

Post by calambrac »

aditya wrote: post #18
calambrac wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My big problem with this whole "FU" money concept, and your thought I quoted above, is that people seem to think they need to get this opportunity from someone else. That makes no sense. Of course you need to get that opportunity from someone else: your customers, your family, your investors, or your buyer, whoever is handing you the money you need to meet your needs. At the end of the day, if someone else hasn't giv…

Unless you're the government and can just print as much as you want. :-) I think the 37signal's viewpoint is interesting, and the point they're trying to make is this, you can chose to do interesting stuff that will make you money while you work for the man. It is _not_ easy. You have to come back from a long day of "meetings, politics, and code" and shut everything out and just create. Sometimes it'll be fun, someti…

Unless you're the government and can just print as much as you want.

Yeah, ask Zimbabwe how that's working out.

you can chose to do interesting stuff that will make you money while you work for the man.

I don't think that's the point they're making at all. They're saying don't work for the man, and don't look for an opportunity to sell your work to the man for a giant payday - "do your own thing" and keep doing it.

Re: Mojito island is a mirage

#26

Post by run4yourlives »

jasonfried wrote: post #14
mikeryan wrote: post #7

In this thread http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=829583 Jason from 37signals said they'd have a post that FU money is a myth. I hope this isn't it. The point of FU money isn't that you'd actually quit everything and walk away. Its about the ABILITY to do so. Once you reach this point everything else is about being able to make your own choices, not being backed into a corner because you have bills to pay.

"Once you reach this point everything else is about being able to make your own choices, not being backed into a corner because you have bills to pay." You're an individual. You can already make your own choices. My big problem with this whole "FU" money concept, and your thought I quoted above, is that people seem to think they need to get this opportunity from someone else. That someone else gives them the opportun…

You can already make your own choices.

Except of course, that the amount of money in your bank account directly influences the effects of those choices. The more you have, the more "free" your choice is.

It's one thing to recognize that you are a man that can make your own choices, it's another to tell your kid he can't eat today because you didn't like what your boss was telling you to do.

Re: Mojito island is a mirage

#27

Post by mseebach »

replicatorblog wrote: post #19
tptacek wrote: post #4

The bliss of knowing that your kids college tuition is fully paid for, no matter where they get accepted, is not overrated. Thinking like DHH indulges in this post is a luxury.

Exactly. DHH is confusing a life of relaxation with the security that comes with a big payday. It's less about sipping mojitos and more the ability to pay for college, mortgage, retirement, and relieving the stress all those things bring. The tradeoff he proposes is a straw man: "Pull a few million from revenue each year or take a lump sum". Is this realistic in most cases? If Mint turned down Intuit, they could have…

> The tradeoff he proposes is a straw man: "Pull a few million from revenue each year or take a lump sum".

I agree. It's probably more like "pizza+beer+nice car+nice summer holiday"-profitable vs. a $2m-$5m payday -- i.e. the "we can do better, let's do this for a year or two more and see who has the last laugh"-passion.

Re: Mojito island is a mirage

#28

Post by calambrac »

jasonfried wrote: post #20
calambrac wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My big problem with this whole "FU" money concept, and your thought I quoted above, is that people seem to think they need to get this opportunity from someone else. That makes no sense. Of course you need to get that opportunity from someone else: your customers, your family, your investors, or your buyer, whoever is handing you the money you need to meet your needs. At the end of the day, if someone else hasn't giv…

I was alluding to a big external event (investment, sale, IPO, liquidation), not to the day-to-day exchanges that are part of your business (selling product, offering services, etc). You can do anything you want on your own without the blessing of someone with a lot more money than you.

I know what you're alluding to, I'm just saying it's an arbitrary distinction. There's absolutely no reason taking a giant payday from a single source is somehow inferior to taking money from thousands of customers in terms of your personal freedom.

Re: Mojito island is a mirage

#29

Post by GHFigs »

jasonfried wrote: post #20
calambrac wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My big problem with this whole "FU" money concept, and your thought I quoted above, is that people seem to think they need to get this opportunity from someone else. That makes no sense. Of course you need to get that opportunity from someone else: your customers, your family, your investors, or your buyer, whoever is handing you the money you need to meet your needs. At the end of the day, if someone else hasn't giv…

I was alluding to a big external event (investment, sale, IPO, liquidation), not to the day-to-day exchanges that are part of your business (selling product, offering services, etc). You can do anything you want on your own without the blessing of someone with a lot more money than you.

In that sense, all money is fuck you money.

Re: Mojito island is a mirage

#30

Post by compay »

jgrahamc wrote: post #2

In short, the bliss of selling and giving up your business is overrated. It’s a long life and it’s often best spent enduring the ups and downs of pursuing something of significance. Don’t be so eager to give it up. Hmm. Recent posts seem to be 37Signals attempting to rationalize their business model vs. recent sell outs for large amounts of money. I'll stand up and say I'd happily take a $40m pay out so that I could…

"I'll stand up and say I'd happily take a $40m pay out so that I could be completely financially secure and get to do what I want."

I agree. Just because you cash out doesn't mean you have to retire.

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