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Stop and Seize

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Stop and Seize

#21

Post by ck2 »

icantthinkofone wrote: post #20

This story is so unbelievably biased and one-sided, it confirms my suspicions of the value of the Washington Post anymore. Carrying $75K in cash around should raise anyone's suspicions as to the purpose, no matter what the carrier claims. Think about it. Why would YOU carry $75K in cash? The obvious and well known reasons are, it's the most secure way to fund drug and terrorist cells without leaving a trail. The Post…

Wait, wait - SEIZED WITHOUT A WARRANT.

If it is so obviously a crime in progress, get a freaking warrant.

This is how everything erodes.

One day you will have $2000 on you in cash to buy a used car and they will seize that too.

Also note the part where they found nothing after a warrantless search so they just posted it for other police to harass them later.

Re: Stop and Seize

#23

Post by coldcode »

All that will happen from this is that criminals will find ways to move money without cash (like bitcoins, etc) and the only people caught will be non-criminals or really stupid criminals. Everything evolves in reaction to pressures.

Re: Stop and Seize

#24

Post by zorrb »

icantthinkofone wrote: post #20

This story is so unbelievably biased and one-sided, it confirms my suspicions of the value of the Washington Post anymore. Carrying $75K in cash around should raise anyone's suspicions as to the purpose, no matter what the carrier claims. Think about it. Why would YOU carry $75K in cash? The obvious and well known reasons are, it's the most secure way to fund drug and terrorist cells without leaving a trail. The Post…

Look, I think most reasonable people would agree the Washington Post is pretty much a joke at this point.

However, I have toe vehemently disagree with your rationale. This line of thinking has to stop. Just because YOU can't think of any reason to carry "large" sums of money doesn't mean there IS no legitimate reason. Innocent until proven guilty, all that jazz.

"Think about it. Why would YOU, wear sagging jeans?"

Also, yes, it IS ridiculously expensive to challenge a seizure of money. This happens ALL OF THE TIME in the south, where cops do illegal searches, find money and say DRUG MONEY DRUG MONEY, and 99% of people are SCREWED because the system is stacked against them.

Re: Stop and Seize

#25

Post by privong »

icantthinkofone wrote: post #20

This story is so unbelievably biased and one-sided, it confirms my suspicions of the value of the Washington Post anymore. Carrying $75K in cash around should raise anyone's suspicions as to the purpose, no matter what the carrier claims. Think about it. Why would YOU carry $75K in cash? The obvious and well known reasons are, it's the most secure way to fund drug and terrorist cells without leaving a trail. The Post…

> Carrying $75K in cash around should raise anyone's suspicions as to the purpose, no matter what the carrier claims. Think about it. Why would YOU carry $75K in cash?

> The obvious and well known reasons are, it's the most secure way to fund drug and terrorist cells without leaving a trail. The Post even acknowledges that!

Not everyone has a bank account. Maybe they should but not everyone does. Just because some people carry cash due to illicit purposes does not mean _everyone_ carries large amounts of cash for that reason. Maybe they do not trust banks? Who cares? The point is, people are essentially being punished without a trial and without being proven guilty of a crime. The presumption of innocence seems very important to a lawful society – why should that presumption be forefitted simply because one chooses to carry large amounts of cash?

Re: Stop and Seize

#26

Post by allegory »

icantthinkofone wrote: post #20

This story is so unbelievably biased and one-sided, it confirms my suspicions of the value of the Washington Post anymore. Carrying $75K in cash around should raise anyone's suspicions as to the purpose, no matter what the carrier claims. Think about it. Why would YOU carry $75K in cash? The obvious and well known reasons are, it's the most secure way to fund drug and terrorist cells without leaving a trail. The Post…

My boss carried £40k in cash around once a month for a number of years. It was people's pay on the way from the bank to the company. Imagine the consequences of siezing that.

In no way should anyone assume anything. That's a bad precedence to set.

And as for me, when I sold my house a few years ago, the buyer paid cash (a suitcase of 15,300 £20 notes). I had to take that to the bank and pay it in, which was suprisingly trouble-free. They just counted it and credited me right away.

Re: Stop and Seize

#27

Post by loupereira »

icantthinkofone wrote: post #20

This story is so unbelievably biased and one-sided, it confirms my suspicions of the value of the Washington Post anymore. Carrying $75K in cash around should raise anyone's suspicions as to the purpose, no matter what the carrier claims. Think about it. Why would YOU carry $75K in cash? The obvious and well known reasons are, it's the most secure way to fund drug and terrorist cells without leaving a trail. The Post…

Carrying $75K in cash around is not illegal, but it soon will be if the powers to be have their way. What the anti-cash movement really wants is digital totalitarianism, that's the bigger picture in all this.

Re: Stop and Seize

#28

Post by zorrb »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #19
tomohawk wrote: post #6

Near the end, they talk about how police can use psychological pressure to keep someone at the side of the road, not telling them they can leave any time the initial traffic stop is over. They then make 'productive' use of that time. Why you should never talk to police: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

I think in practice the "fuck you, I know my rights" approach is the worst one. Just take 20 minutes to hide your cash properly and in a friendly voice say "sure officer, go ahead and search." He's not going to find it.

This is terrible advice on multiple levels.

Absolutely you shouldn't be leaving the money out in the open, and should probably hide it. You should absolutely NEVER give consent to search your car. You have no idea what a person is capable of until it's too late. I'm not saying the cop will plant something, though it wouldn't be the first time, but you also have NO IDEA what might be in your car accidentally.

Re: Stop and Seize

#29

Post by CognitiveLens »

icantthinkofone wrote: post #20

This story is so unbelievably biased and one-sided, it confirms my suspicions of the value of the Washington Post anymore. Carrying $75K in cash around should raise anyone's suspicions as to the purpose, no matter what the carrier claims. Think about it. Why would YOU carry $75K in cash? The obvious and well known reasons are, it's the most secure way to fund drug and terrorist cells without leaving a trail. The Post…

There are two important points that your critique ignores

> Half of the seizures were below $8,800.

> Asset forfeiture is an extraordinarily powerful law enforcement tool that allows the government to take cash and property without pressing criminal charges and then requires the owners to prove their possessions were legally acquired.

The majority of seizures are nowhere near the $75K figure you're concerned about. I agree that large amounts of cash are suspicious, but these seizures seem to draw the line somewhere well below your hyperbolic example. Suspicious activity is not a priori illegal.

Second, when NO criminal charges are made, the seizures are no different than government thuggery. Carrying large amounts of cash is suspicious, and should therefore influence the question of probable cause, which could then be used to gather evidence for criminal charges, but that is not happening in many of these cases. That's a fundamental problem that needs to be reported more widely.

Re: Stop and Seize

#30

Post by shin_lao »

I don't see what the problem is.

In France if you carry more than 10,000 € in cash, you need to make a custom declaration.

It's also illegal to buy something for more than 3,000 € in cash.

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