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Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

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Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#21
post #6

I really wish it wasn't called "War on drugs". One of the things I dislike about America, as an outsider, is their tendency to call everything "War on X", which essentially makes everything us vs them.

The term is harsh, and I've heard numerous complaints over "War on X" phrases, as you say, but I think this one is justified/beneficial. It indicates that drugs are the "them", and "us" encompasses legislators, regular people, and users the like.

Except that it is not how it turned out. It turned out that "us" was law enforcement and "them" essentially anyone else.

Mostly any kid smoking small amount of marijuana. Being free of drugs wont necessary help you, because law enforcement so much power, that they can take away your property even if you have done nothing wrong. And you can still get stopped and searched for drugs for no reason.

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#22
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bernie Sanders (Independent - VT) is the nation's only socialist Senator.

*he's the only self-proclaimed socialist. Surely there are more who possess similar ideologies, but aren't outwardly socialist.

Difficult to say, but i doubt it.

When it comes to whipping votes (getting the party members to vote along party lines) only he and Angus King have the ability to claim no affiliation to the Democrat ticket, but Maine is a much more centrist state than Vermont. The house does not currently have any third party members.

Since voting is what matters (not privately held views), i'd say that he is indeed the only socialist in washington. If you insist on nitpicking about personal views, i'd say that perhaps you could include some representatives from the bay area, portland oregon, vermont (particularly the college towns), but that's about it. Many people always assume that the politicians hold secret views (shockingly similar to the those of the people who tend to believe it), but i honestly see no reason why people assume this. If someone has the forum to spread views the truly believe in, i don't seem much reason why they wouldn't.

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#23
post #3

What a wonderful world it will be when we help our sick instead of imprison them. I am looking forward to the rest of the world following suit. I'd also like to add this is a great time for US democracy to shine, as it is through statehood that things like this can be tested on a small scale, before rolling out to 'prod'.

> I am looking forward to the rest of the world following suit.

It's more like the opposite.

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#24
post #17
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a resident and commnications director/volunteer for a couple of campaigns, I've learned a Republican in Vermont is almost always like a Democrat in any other state.

Are Democrats more likely to oppose the war on drugs?

No, nor have they historically been more likely to oppose mandatory minimum sentencing guidelines. See http://www.amazon.com/First-Civil-Right-Political-Developmen...

Also, big disclaimer, the author of the aforementioned book and I dated for four years.

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#25
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

*he's the only self-proclaimed socialist. Surely there are more who possess similar ideologies, but aren't outwardly socialist.

Difficult to say, but i doubt it. When it comes to whipping votes (getting the party members to vote along party lines) only he and Angus King have the ability to claim no affiliation to the Democrat ticket, but Maine is a much more centrist state than Vermont. The house does not currently have any third party members. Since voting is what matters (not privately held views), i'd say that he is indeed the only sociali…

I was thinking less along the lines of secret views, and instead, on how many people hold socialist-like beliefs without associating themselves (internally, not outwardly) with the word "socialist".

In the modern U.S., "socialist" and "communist" have become derogatory terms more than anything else, and their colloquial meanings are rarely consistent with any formal definition. Because of this stigma, it's easy for one to possess socialist beliefs while simultaneously dismissing all things "socialist", as they are universally negative.

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#26
"War on drugs" is a terrible world affliction. Prohibition neither works nor is conducive to a better society. Governments should just tax and sell the drugs to the general public. Alcohol is considered to be the most harmful drug but is legal because it can be taxed, controlled, and makes money. (http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_caus...)

Governments should also support people that want drugs to come off those drugs and while we're at it, release all prisoners who are specifically in for possession/dealing/trafficking.

We really need to give up on this idea of a drug free world.

I think we need to look to Portugal for an example of what can be done and also as a starting point for possibly developing a better model http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/evaluating-drug-d...

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#27
Just back from Boom Festival in Portugal, where personal drug use is decriminalized.

There was almost no police/security at the gates or inside the festival, although selling drugs was not tolerated (eg. people selling on the festival grounds were kindly asked to leave). There were 42.000 people from 152 countries and most of them used some kind of substance or plant there (marijuana being the most abundantly and openly used). As a consequence (or despite this?), this was one of the safest and warmest places I have ever seen.

Instead of police watching everyone, there were a number of premises: there was a drug info stand, were one could go and test their drugs. The queue was quite long there, people stood 2+ hours in the queue to test their substances.

Then there was the Kosmic Care, a place were 20+ psychologists, doctors and shamans would bring people having 'bad' trips back to earth. They had 70 'bad' trippers in the first night alone and they were expecting a lot more on the full moon night. I've spoken to the psychologists there (out of curiosity, not because of a bad trip :) ) and they told me that that the majority of bad trips were caused by people taking 'fake' LSD. In fact, she said, 50% of the LSD people tested was not actually LSD but some designer substance with unknown consequences and effects. Other reasons for bad trips - was people mixing substances or taknig too much (usually young, unexperienced people) and people having prior mental illness.

I asked a guy there, how can one prevent people from having a bad trip again and the answer was 'well, after such an experience, most people grow up pretty quickly and it's unlikely they would take these substances lightly the next time'.

In most countries, these young people would end up in a hospital and then get arrested and possibly spend time in jail.

The war on drugs has caused a lot of suffering and has done very little to reduce drug use or addiction, yet it costs billions every year.

Protugal's approach to drugs is a great example of how the negative effects of drug use can be handled with minimal costs and lead to positive outcomes in drug users. All it takes is a bit of acceptance and common sense.

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#28
post #23
post #3

What a wonderful world it will be when we help our sick instead of imprison them. I am looking forward to the rest of the world following suit. I'd also like to add this is a great time for US democracy to shine, as it is through statehood that things like this can be tested on a small scale, before rolling out to 'prod'.

> I am looking forward to the rest of the world following suit. It's more like the opposite.

I'm not so sure, the world exists outside of Europe and the US. There are some seriously draconian drug laws in Asia for example

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#29
post #3

What a wonderful world it will be when we help our sick instead of imprison them. I am looking forward to the rest of the world following suit. I'd also like to add this is a great time for US democracy to shine, as it is through statehood that things like this can be tested on a small scale, before rolling out to 'prod'.

That's about the stupidest thing I've heard in a while, so stupid I have to assume it's sarcasm. Of course the great state experiment is how we got here in the first place. Reagan, as governor, defunded mental health care and just said fuckit, throw all the addicts in prison. Then he took his ideas "to prod" by doubling down on Nixon's "war", with the helpful (to his party) side-effect of throwing millions of black p…

As personally attacking as this post is (though the anger is perfectly understandable), it's probably closest to my view, mentioning "the helpful (to his party) side-effect of throwing millions of black people in prisons."

Except I don't consider it a side-effect, nor do I think it's limited to Republicans. For example, prison was one way to control the newly freed slave population. (http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/199804--.htm) Being the world's biggest jailer isn't exactly an "oops" thing.

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