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Show HN: A marketplace for client-side apps

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Re: Show HN: A marketplace for client-side apps

#21

Post by zackbloom »

halisaurus wrote: post #20
zackbloom wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) One simple reason is if you're one of the millions of website owners who is not technical enough to install it manually. We hope to have the ability to go one step further for example and select from a set of themes to make it even easier to make a beautiful site. Another reason which relates to #4 is to make it easier to update versions in the future. We hope to build ways of testing those version changes to make…

Sorry, I don't understand your Bootstrap example. If I'm not technical to "install" BS (script/CSS tags and uploading files to a host) then I'm probably not technical enough to use Bootstrap's CSS/JS components by writing HTML or little JS snippets. What real benefit is the one-click install if that's (probably) the easiest part of using a JS/CSS library? Edit: It's not your Bootstrap example, it was the original que…

We can allow people to make themes for Bootstrap which depend on the original Bootstrap app. Those themes can be used out-of-the-box by non-technical people.

We can also help you to manage the version of Bootstrap you're using to make it easier to keep your site up-to-date.

Including Bootstrap now though is more of an example of the breadth of what can be included using Eager, rather than a specific suggestion. I agree that it's not particularly practical to include it directly in it's current form, but many of our other apps can be used directly with great success.

As much as I'd love to build something for developers by developers, the purpose of Eager right now is to help developers get their code to non-technical people. So the question might be not how to add Bootstrap to your site, but how can you build an Eager app on top of Bootstrap to make it accessible to others.

Re: Show HN: A marketplace for client-side apps

#22

Post by afschwartz »

rubiquity wrote: post #19
zackbloom wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are considering allowing the information to be placed in an `install` field in the package.json. Is that something you would prefer?

I think that would be a step in the right direction!

While I fully support the ability of using an `install` property in a `package.json` as an alternative, as a frequent author of package.json, bower.json, component.json, and install.json files, I feel confident saying that install.json is a slightly different situation. Take github.com/HubSpot/Offline for example:

The package.json [1] and bower.json [2] share a lot of the same information: `name`, `version`, `authors`, and `description` are duplicated properties in both. Furthermore, updating the `version` property in a file in Git isn’t always necessary when you can create tagged releases with version numbers.

`install.json` doesn’t have the “Ugh, now I have to add the same information in a new place”-problem because it introduces two new root properties, namely `resources` and `options`, which do different (and very useful) things from the properties in these other json files. These properties define respectively the resources to include in a page when “installing” the app, and the JSON options to provide the app upon its initialization. They allow for a common way that JS and CSS resources be included in pages, which is a useful thing for the community to start to standardize around, even if this isn’t the perfect thing yet.

[1] https://github.com/HubSpot/offline/blob/master/package.json

[2] https://github.com/HubSpot/offline/blob/master/bower.json

Re: Show HN: A marketplace for client-side apps

#23

Post by sanderjd »

zackbloom wrote: post #9
malandrew wrote: post #3

I hate to do this because I don't like when the first or at least most upvoted comment is dismissive, but I really must ask: Why? What purpose does a marketplace serve for web apps? There is not reason for an app maker to give up revenue to a third-party gatekeeper like Apple or Google and discoverability is best done via what's worked for the almighty hyperlink? Furthermore, why not use the same exact install metada…

This is a really good question. I (one of the cofounders) have a few thoughts. Just to clarify, when we talk about apps, we mean single purpose client-side javascript and css which add functionality to an existing site, not web apps. Installing client-side code is pretty difficult right now for non-technical people. You have to know how a script tag works, where to put it, how to host files, etc. There is great softw…

Hey! Thanks for the explanation. That's pretty neat. Like your parent commenter, I wasn't interpreting this in the way you described it. The term "app" is already quite overloaded, and I would call what you're describing a "widget" instead, but I suspect you may be hoping for a quick marketing win from the corollary to mobile app stores.

I'm really curious about your vision of who the potential customers are. It seems like it is targeted at a segment of the wordpress audience that is not using wordpress. Is there such a segment already, or is the goal for this project to create one?

In any case, it seems like a very good and novel (to me) idea! Kudos.

Re: Show HN: A marketplace for client-side apps

#24

Post by zackbloom »

sanderjd wrote: post #23
zackbloom wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a really good question. I (one of the cofounders) have a few thoughts. Just to clarify, when we talk about apps, we mean single purpose client-side javascript and css which add functionality to an existing site, not web apps. Installing client-side code is pretty difficult right now for non-technical people. You have to know how a script tag works, where to put it, how to host files, etc. There is great softw…

Hey! Thanks for the explanation. That's pretty neat. Like your parent commenter, I wasn't interpreting this in the way you described it. The term "app" is already quite overloaded, and I would call what you're describing a "widget" instead, but I suspect you may be hoping for a quick marketing win from the corollary to mobile app stores. I'm really curious about your vision of who the potential customers are. It seem…

Hi and thanks! It's a really good point. We use apps because it's the most logical word in our minds for 'self contained bit of code which does something'. Widget is a good suggestion (although I have to admit it makes me think of http://www.idealaunch.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/ya...).

The prospective customer is anyone who has a website but isn't technical enough to be considered a web developer. This definitely includes the 60+ million sites on WordPress. Many of the great open source client-side libraries and tools out there aren't available as WordPress plugins. We certainly think Eager is something you can use along with (or instead of) the WordPress plugin marketplace, along with SquareSpace or even static sites on GitHub.

The hope is that we can convince these people that they will have a better experience coming to Eager when they need a lead generation tool or a comment widget than the wordpress marketplace itself.

Re: Show HN: A marketplace for client-side apps

#25

Post by halisaurus »

zackbloom wrote: post #21
halisaurus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I don't understand your Bootstrap example. If I'm not technical to "install" BS (script/CSS tags and uploading files to a host) then I'm probably not technical enough to use Bootstrap's CSS/JS components by writing HTML or little JS snippets. What real benefit is the one-click install if that's (probably) the easiest part of using a JS/CSS library? Edit: It's not your Bootstrap example, it was the original que…

We can allow people to make themes for Bootstrap which depend on the original Bootstrap app. Those themes can be used out-of-the-box by non-technical people. We can also help you to manage the version of Bootstrap you're using to make it easier to keep your site up-to-date. Including Bootstrap now though is more of an example of the breadth of what can be included using Eager, rather than a specific suggestion. I agr…

Thanks for the response. (And responding throughout this thread, too.) I see the point in using this for dependencies, and there are other apps like Google Analytics that have minimal configuration to use.

Re: Show HN: A marketplace for client-side apps

#28

Post by nmjohn »

zackbloom wrote: post #24
sanderjd wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey! Thanks for the explanation. That's pretty neat. Like your parent commenter, I wasn't interpreting this in the way you described it. The term "app" is already quite overloaded, and I would call what you're describing a "widget" instead, but I suspect you may be hoping for a quick marketing win from the corollary to mobile app stores. I'm really curious about your vision of who the potential customers are. It seem…

Hi and thanks! It's a really good point. We use apps because it's the most logical word in our minds for 'self contained bit of code which does something'. Widget is a good suggestion (although I have to admit it makes me think of http://www.idealaunch.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/ya... ). The prospective customer is anyone who has a website but isn't technical enough to be considered a web developer. This def…

Honestly I think you should coin your own term...

I, like both other commenters had the same questioning nature when I heard the word app. But when I read your original explanation to the parent post, I realized that this actually is a pretty darn good idea.

Widget on the other hand just reminds me of windows vista and the awful of widgets of a few years ago.

This is where a new term, one that doesn't already have strong connotations, is very valuable in my mind. Because what you're doing doesn't really fit with any term out there. It also could do wonders from a marketing perspective. If I hear, oh, there is this new app store providing client side apps, I'm not intrigued. But If I hear hey there is this new store providing client side NEW_WORD, I'm immediately intrigued. I'm going to want to learn asap what this new technology that I've not heard of is.

Re: Show HN: A marketplace for client-side apps

#29

Post by stronglikedan »

zackbloom wrote: post #24
sanderjd wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey! Thanks for the explanation. That's pretty neat. Like your parent commenter, I wasn't interpreting this in the way you described it. The term "app" is already quite overloaded, and I would call what you're describing a "widget" instead, but I suspect you may be hoping for a quick marketing win from the corollary to mobile app stores. I'm really curious about your vision of who the potential customers are. It seem…

Hi and thanks! It's a really good point. We use apps because it's the most logical word in our minds for 'self contained bit of code which does something'. Widget is a good suggestion (although I have to admit it makes me think of http://www.idealaunch.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/ya... ). The prospective customer is anyone who has a website but isn't technical enough to be considered a web developer. This def…

What about "component" or "module"? Well, maybe not "module", but I'm just brainstorming.

Re: Show HN: A marketplace for client-side apps

#30

Post by eric_bullington »

zackbloom wrote: post #17
leepowers wrote: post #15

Couple of questions and observations. Referencing an app store page: https://eager.io/app/uY5Di0FqBVvn 1) Why install Bootstrap from Eager? As a developer I can pretty easily find, download and use the Bootstrap from getbootstrap.com 2) Not that I don't trust you but .... how can I verify that the Bootstrap source files haven't been tampered with in some way? 3) Related to #2 - Can anyone upload an app? How do you ve…

1) One simple reason is if you're one of the millions of website owners who is not technical enough to install it manually. We hope to have the ability to go one step further for example and select from a set of themes to make it even easier to make a beautiful site. Another reason which relates to #4 is to make it easier to update versions in the future. We hope to build ways of testing those version changes to make…

You know, if this takes off -- and I hope it does -- you may be in a good position to help solve some of the client-side JS security issues/concerns, particularly in combination with the upcoming webcrypto standard.

I'm thinking in particular about publishing a registry of library hashes and possibly signatures (specified in your json config), and then validating them before your users install.

In fact, if this becomes popular, I think you may have to do this, otherwise you could well become a hive of malware purveyors impersonating popular apps (or whatever you end up calling them -- btw, I don't think "widget" is a bad idea for what you're doing, or even coming up with a new term).

Looking forward to watching this.

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