In another life I had to take aircraft crash response training, and was in charge of recovery (salvage, battle-field repair etc). The response to an aircraft with composite materials is totally different. With normal construction we could get to work as soon as the fire, was out and any hazardous liquids were taken care of. Crashes involving damage to composite structures required that the damaged areas be sprayed down with a varnish like chemical by the same troops who handle Chemical weapon response (they had special suits). Then there would be air particulate tests before we could move in. Here is a military study: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a420193.pdf
German armed forces warn that carbon fiber might be cancer-causing
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Re: German armed forces warn that carbon fiber might be cancer-causing
#22And next week our great Bundeswehr Research Facility will tell us that: smell of burned oil can make us ill and eating of weapon bullets can cause diarrhea.
Re: German armed forces warn that carbon fiber might be cancer-causing
#23While in undergrad I spent about 5 years working with carbon fiber in a motorsports setting. I did a lot of cutting and sanding without a mask. There were weeks I would blow my nose 3 days after working on a part and still find black specks. I guess I'll find out in a few years...
Re: German armed forces warn that carbon fiber might be cancer-causing
#24From the Google translated version of the article it looks like it's only dangerous when burned.
To be fair, most things are dangerous when burned.
But carbon fiber is used in applications where high-friction (burning) is likely to occur... It is harder to burn metal.
And there are levels of dangerous, based on size and shape of microparticles.
Re: German armed forces warn that carbon fiber might be cancer-causing
#25The USAF was concerned at one point that should an F-16 burn on a runway, it would release carbon-fiber strands which would float around the base and short out electrical equipment (communications gear, phone switch, power generation, etc).
Seems like the concern was correct, but misplaced. We had a plane catch fire on a taxiway and burn, and no electrical mayhem resulted. Perhaps we should have worn our gas masks -- but we didn't know at the time.
Re: German armed forces warn that carbon fiber might be cancer-causing
#26Though I'm all in to scientific development and the benefits of these new materials, I still want to point out, that nor carbon-fiber or graphene exist in nature in large quantities for more than one reason, while diamond and graphite do. Now the question should be .. why is that?
Likely because they require complex structures processes to create, not just pressure and time and heat. "Danger to others" is not a factor in nature's selection process.
Re: German armed forces warn that carbon fiber might be cancer-causing
#27In another life I had to take aircraft crash response training, and was in charge of recovery (salvage, battle-field repair etc). The response to an aircraft with composite materials is totally different. With normal construction we could get to work as soon as the fire, was out and any hazardous liquids were taken care of. Crashes involving damage to composite structures required that the damaged areas be sprayed do…
A long time ago a coworker told me about this. He told me it was because the dust was conductive and would wreck havoc with electronics.
Re: German armed forces warn that carbon fiber might be cancer-causing
#28Though I'm all in to scientific development and the benefits of these new materials, I still want to point out, that nor carbon-fiber or graphene exist in nature in large quantities for more than one reason, while diamond and graphite do. Now the question should be .. why is that?
Likely because they require complex structures processes to create, not just pressure and time and heat. "Danger to others" is not a factor in nature's selection process.
Danger to others that share a gene line IS part of natural selection. That's why most creatures don't cannibalize within their family/pack for instance.
Re: German armed forces warn that carbon fiber might be cancer-causing
#29Formula 1 and other open wheel racing drivers have been exposed to carbon fiber dust (from the carbon-carbon brakes) for a few decades now. There is some research going on with former racing drivers. E.g. former F1 driver Mika Salo underwent surgery where his lungs were examined to assess the effects of repeated exposure to burned carbon fiber dust (this was several years ago). Unfortunately, I do not have any links…
I would also assume people working in the cycling industry who've been working with carbon fiber for decades would have the same exposure. The first carbon fiber frame was made in 1975:
http://www.jimlangley.net/ride/bicyclehistorywh.html (its at the bottom of the page in the timeline)
As with all manufacturing processes, I'm pretty sure in 1975, it wasn't nearly as precise or safe it is now and am wondering how many people were exposed to these fumes. If you wanted a good control group, I'd think they would be a prime candidate to examine the effects of this on the lungs.
Re: German armed forces warn that carbon fiber might be cancer-causing
#30Since the carcinogenic effect of asbestos is mostly caused by it's physical properties[1]; anything that resembles the shape of asbestos' micro-particles is also highly suspected to be carcinogenic. The shape, size, and adsorbing nature of the fibers also appear to be critically important. Recently, doubts have arisen concerning the safety of commercially available carbon nanotubes,[2] which may possess the same carc…
It's probably worth making the distinction that most people are exposed to "Carbon Fiber" as CRP[1], not "raw carbon fibers". And it is the ~aersolized bits raw carbon/dusts (the subject of this article) that are problematic.
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[1] The german title is "Bundeswehr warnt vor Krebs durch Carbonfasern", and From the German wikipedia page "Carbonfasern" ...
The fibers are mainly for the production of carbon fiber reinforced plastic used (CFRP = Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastic). Derived from the English, the abbreviation CFRP (is english Carbon Fibre Reinforced Plastic) used.